201–210 of 271 posts
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That black mirror system is p2p when China's system is centralized. I believe the black mirror system is worse.
Just curious - why do you think a centralized system would be superior to a decentralized system? That would allow the norm to be dictated by the central authority, and not through public consensus.
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You've gotta look at things in perspective. When you live in China what you get is basically 0 crime, a very rapidly developing economy with huge potential for all sorts of entrepreneurship, extremely cheap cost of living with heavy subsidies for costs like utilities, and a generally pretty peaceful and pleasant place. Biggest practical problem is fake or knockoff everything from condoms to eggs. Yip fake eggs are re…
> I have no idea whether the Chinese system of government is a good idea or an idea that will lead to the implosion of their society. So if it doesn't implode, that makes it a good idea?
So yes I think it's completely absurd to suggest they've achieved anything short of remarkable success with their system of development and governance. But the question is what will happen in the process of this success and whether the path they've taken is sustainable or not. Is their growth indeed on the current exponential it seems to be on? A sigmoid where this wildly exponential growth will start to level off, or perhaps even something like a bell curve where the rapid ascent will be met by a comparably rapid decline?
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Oh, so just downvoting, just censoring, just like killing people, is the "argument". Every click without a word proves my point without diminishing a word I said. Giving totalitarianism an inch, rationalizing obedience to it for just one minute, has these results. Quod erat demonstrandum.
Apparently HN worships technology more so than it values the human condition. A 1.3 billion people totalitarian """experiment""" (which already negatively impacts millions) is not a problem because "inevitable" or "interesting to observe". Authoritarianism still has many bright days ahead with such people.
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Not sure you can compare the mess that Greece currently is with the prosperity of living in China (with the drawback of surrendering your privacy).
I have been to Greece and I have friends who live there, and I can say that living in Greece is normal. I am really not sure why would claim that living in Greece is significantly worse than living in China or any other western country.
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Chinese value personal freedom and do enjoy quite a lot of it, actually. In fact, I'd say that Chinese society allows more individuality and freedom than e.g. Japanese society.
I thought your name was familiar. You were the same person who implied that anyone who doesn't visit China isn't allowed to have an opinion, and blew off human rights abuses [0]. Why you insist on defending China with such rigor, I'm not sure. No, the Chinese people do not have quite a lot of personal freedom. You have no right to freedom of speech in the sense anyone in a Western country does. You do not have the fr…
I am just stating simple facts in a dispassionate way.
Considering the distorted way any country (and especially China) is represented in the media and in some comments I read here (including yours, which close to hysterical) the best advice is indeed to withhold strong opinions if you have no direct experience and knowledge.
I don't deny the drastic restrictions in force in China regarding Rights with a capital R, but again in practice they do enjoy as many practical rights as we do in daily life and Chinese society is in fact much less 'oppressive' than, say, Japan.
The way you keep track of my comments and your ad hominem attacks could be construed as bullying and harassment, by the way.
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Yes, there are examples like this. Collateral damage will happen in war. It is tragic and always will be, and I say that with all sincerity. National security has always been thus and always will be so until there is no such thing as a nation.
There is collateral damage in china's war against its terrorists, and I'm sure they justify it the same. It's bullshit, when you are making up a foreverwar.
I'm disgusted by the comments in this thread that go "culture!", "tradition!", "philosophy!" to explain why this really isn't that much of a problem. So because Chinese rulers have oppressed and mistreated their people for so long that their methods have become ingrained in the national psyche, it's somehow more OK? George Orwell predicted that "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human f…
> China is unique in that it's been all about oppressing and abusing the population as heavily as possible, without pause, ever since the first emperors gave the country its foreign name. This is such complete nonsense. I think it's hilarious how totally and completely misguided about China that Westerners, and Americans in particular, actually are. It boggles the belief just how much complete nonsense is spouted her…
Person: "I think a social credit system is bad for China."
Automated Bot: "100 social credit penalty for you!"
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No. One rates your ability to take on debt by how you handled previous debts, the other involves rating your amount of freedom according to a fuzzy social score. Very different....
How is getting an apartment "taking on debt"?
It’s actually a completely reasonable use of credit report.
Well here in the US we have an actual credit system in place. And since basic necessities are often dependent on credit rating (employment; housing purchaes ; rentals; vehicle financing/lease) it’s pretty dystopian. Not to mention for nearly 20 years now we have had secret no fly lists (no due process to get on or off) and even secret kill lists (no due process), I think it’s just another way to skin the cat, and may…
The moment I saw the headline I just knew there’d be a “it’s just as bad over here” post in the thread somewhere. Thanks for not disappointing me. There are different ways to approach this though. There’s “what China is doing is no big deal, we do it all as well so why are we hypocritically making a fuss?”. Then there’s “this is appalling and should be condemned absolutely, but let’s be careful here because we’re alr…
Not to burst your bubble, but I don’t think my comment is saying it’s just as bad here, only encouragement to do a comparative analysis of the two systems. Maybe one is worse/better in terms of scale but dystopian systems are dystopian systems notwithstanding the scale.
Anyway you are obviously entitled to your opinion about my comment, but help me understand how you came to the conclusion my comment is “it’s worse here?”
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I thought your name was familiar. You were the same person who implied that anyone who doesn't visit China isn't allowed to have an opinion, and blew off human rights abuses [0]. Why you insist on defending China with such rigor, I'm not sure. No, the Chinese people do not have quite a lot of personal freedom. You have no right to freedom of speech in the sense anyone in a Western country does. You do not have the fr…
I am not defending anything. I find the trend of accusing others of defending something simply because they refuse to join the mob quite worrying. I am just stating simple facts in a dispassionate way. Considering the distorted way any country (and especially China) is represented in the media and in some comments I read here (including yours, which close to hysterical) the best advice is indeed to withhold strong op…
I think topical context with a commenter is relevant, just as my past remarks on China are. If someone wants to construe "refuse to reply to the content of arguments" (as opposed to replying on the basis of where someone lives) as bullying and harassment, so be it.
I don't deny that if you conform in China you have nothing to worry about. It's no warzone. But it is not a friendly country to those who are not conformists or are minorities, and may not toe the Party line.
As an example, the Uyghurs are a sizable group for whom are consistently oppressed by the government. This is not a distortion of any kind. We know about the intense surveillance (more intrusive than normal Chinese citizen surveillance), the "re-education camps", et cetera.
Direct experience can only serve to confirm or deny facts, it does not change them. It's also much harder for direct experience to be of any value without a free press to challenge government narratives.