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The State of JavaScript 2018

2018.stateofjs.com

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Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#201

Post by addicted »

untog wrote: post #193
rafaelvasco wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly Yarn or NPM. The problem is that JS is suffering from extreme dependency hell, due to overly fragmentation of modules. It's appalling. It is not a good thing starting a project, doing a install and having hundreds and hundreds of modules on node_modules, some with less then 50 lines of code. Of course things must be modular, but unwraping everything in a folder like this is far from good.

I'm curious: why is it bad? I very, very rarely have to delve into my node_modules folder to take a look at something.

The leftpad fiasco (which I believe NPM has now mitigated), and the recent security issue where a certain popular package was uploading any passwords it found showed the current dangers with NPM.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#203

Post by eropple »

madmax14141 wrote: post #197
wild_preference wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's actual representation of the genders in the web development field. If so, then it's still "What JS users think of JS."

https://www.ncwit.org/blog/did-you-know-demographics-technic... According to this woman make up around 30% of web developers in the US. The highest amount of respondents are from the US so I would expect the woman respondents to be more than a measly 5%.

Eh. You raise a good and reasonable point but in this particular case I think you're comparing pomes to apples. "Web developer" is a pretty broad term, and was even moreso in 2012 when your statistic was generated. As an example: I'm a "web developer". But if I was surveyed about CSS (as a particular technology I barely understand, avoid using, and don't care about) I wouldn't respond. I would expect a number of my backend-focused colleagues to do similarly for other topics.

Being aware of sampling bias is good and useful; I'd just worry a bit about pulling too hard on that ripcord here.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#204

Post by commandlinefan »

LandR wrote: post #12

> JavaScript is always changing. New libraries, new frameworks, new languages… It's part of the fun, No.. NO, it isn't.

> > It's part of the fun, > No.. NO, it isn't.

Well, it would be, and it should be, except for the unreasonable expectations from the "owners" who assume that everything they don't understand must be simple to do.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#205

Post by toupeira »

untog wrote: post #193
rafaelvasco wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly Yarn or NPM. The problem is that JS is suffering from extreme dependency hell, due to overly fragmentation of modules. It's appalling. It is not a good thing starting a project, doing a install and having hundreds and hundreds of modules on node_modules, some with less then 50 lines of code. Of course things must be modular, but unwraping everything in a folder like this is far from good.

I'm curious: why is it bad? I very, very rarely have to delve into my node_modules folder to take a look at something.

You should take a proper look once, you'll be amazed at all the different modules implementing the same functionality over and over again (e.g. globbing, promisifying, or the myriad of `is-*` single-function packages).

Why is that bad? It's a huge waste of effort, increases the burden on anyone who's maintaining a package using those micro-libraries, and will guarantee more unpatched security vulnerabilities and unmaintained packages in the long run.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#206

Post by jakelazaroff »

chrisweekly wrote: post #117
esistgut wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Angular is dead? Most don't even want to touch it again ( Great ). I don't get the Angular hate. I work with it daily and seems like a productive environment. I did some tests with React and Vue too and couldn't find any relevant advantage. Angular has batteries included tools for a lot of tasks: i18n, routing, isomorphic builds, web components, etc.. You get a cross platform mobile development environment too usin…

One major reason is that Ng is its own thing. It's not JavaScript, nor HTML. Also, "batteries included" means buying into the whole monolithic framework. The React ecosystem requires more decisions, but also benefits from ability to pick and choose the right libraries for a given project. That said, Angular has some great parts, eg TypeScript and RxJS.

I find the "build your own framework" aspect of React to be as much a curse as it is a blessing. You can skip some of the bloat, but you also have to kludge together multiple libraries of varying quality to get the same things you'd get out of the box with a "batteries included" framework.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#207

Post by commandlinefan »

s_kilk wrote: post #5

Ouch, the ratio of "would use again" to "would not use again" on AngularJS stunning, if not surprising: https://2018.stateofjs.com/front-end-frameworks/overview/

Angular reminds me of the Spring "framework". Once you peel back the GIGABYTES of framework redirection and figure out what it's actually doing, it's not a bad way to organize code - it's just that trying to wrap that up in a reusable library rather than just recommend it as a best practice is so braindead as to be incomprehensible.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#208

Post by akvadrako »

kowdermeister wrote: post #96
IloveHN84 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loved? Well, it's a point of view. I personally hate it, due to the tooling and the dependency management (npm and yarn are catastrophic, an "hello world" example with React downloads on average more than 100 packages).

My "secret" weapon against tooling creep is https://parceljs.org it really lives up it its tagline.

I wish that was true.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#209

Post by akvadrako »

blauditore wrote: post #168
ksec wrote: post #18

People are generally happy with the development of JS the trends of always improving languages along with frameworks makes developing with JS makes developer increase in happiness for the third time in a row. ES6 is good, TypeScript is gaining ground, people are moving away from Flow. Angular is dead? Most don't even want to touch it again ( Great ). Ember hasn't moved a bit in three years with a declining of interes…

> Angular is dead? Most don't even want to touch it again Quite the opposite is happening from what I'm seeing. More people seem to move away from React towards Angular, but that's just my anecdotal observation.

That's just absurd - I have no love for React, but I can't imagine why anybody would adopt Angular now.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#210

Post by cloverich »

benjaminsuch wrote: post #109
ksec wrote: post #18

People are generally happy with the development of JS the trends of always improving languages along with frameworks makes developing with JS makes developer increase in happiness for the third time in a row. ES6 is good, TypeScript is gaining ground, people are moving away from Flow. Angular is dead? Most don't even want to touch it again ( Great ). Ember hasn't moved a bit in three years with a declining of interes…

Just curious why no one want to touch it again? I never developed with Angular but I loved to develop with AngularJS (and still working with it). Can anybody entlighten me?

My personal experience (used Angular JS and EmberJS, before React) -- AngularJS (like Ember) required a lot of Angular _specific_ understanding to use properly, and (_unlike_ Ember) some of those had significant performance impacts. When I switched to React, i felt like there were 3 or 4 API's I needed to understand, and that the escape hatch was easily reachable at all times. There were numerous features I extended deadlines for in Ember and Angular where I would say to my teamates: "I could solve this with Javascript, but how do you handle this in Angular?". Some people are ok with that tradeoff, but both sides feel relatively strongly about that particular choice.
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