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Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

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Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#201

Post by dx87 »

TarpitCarnivore wrote: post #188
elejo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody here will ever complain about illegal aliens because they are wealthy programmers, etc and won't be affected by their unfair competition. Just look at this tweet I saw a few hours ago from the editor of boingboing: https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1054816681699139584 Imagine her shock when she learns that most people can't afford to hire someone to mow their lawns, mop their floors, or raise their kids! Talk ab…

Her comment was being targeted at the upper class who are the loudest ones yelling for this. There's also a fair amount of 'working class' industries who rely on migrant workers to keep labor down, such as landscaping and house cleaning. This is what the tweet is hammering at.

Keeping the price of labor down is exactly what they're talking about. She knows that illegal immigrants providing cheap labor won't affect her wages and allows her to hire people to do manual labor for dirt cheap, so she accuses people of being xenophobic racists if they aren't fine with exploiting illegal immigrants to provide cheap labor.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#202

Post by leereeves »

michaelt wrote: post #185
snarfybarfy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what kind of right would breaking the speed limit push that citizens could possible want to have changed? I am all for hardcoded speed limits. Why sell cars that can go faster than $MaxSpeedInYourCountry ??? Other than that I think you made a good point.

Why sell cars that can go faster than $MaxSpeedInYourCountry ??? Politicians today have three choices: (1) Set and enforce low speed limits, large numbers of drivers make low-impact complaints. (2) Set and enforce high speed limits, small numbers of parents of dead children make high-impact complaints. (3) Set low speed limits but don't enforce them. Anti-speed campaigners and road users are both satisfied. In my cou…

In response to aggressive use of traffic cameras, people in a number of cities and states have passed propositions banning their use.

A switch to (1) might have similar effects, motivating the people to force a switch to (2).

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#203

Post by Novashi »

crististm wrote: post #136
FilterSweep wrote: post #23

Yikes. I’ve heard of some American citizens being mistaken for illegal immigrants and being detained with no recuse[0], I could only imagine how bad it could get if the machine errors. [0] https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/ice-wrongfully-detained-nearly...

According to some of my team mates, a computer is never wrong. And they would gladly replace the justice system with AI ones. They program computers and they should know better but I am lost wondering at what level they are thinking to even go down this road.

Right/wrong for immigration is decided by the political landscape anyway, so they're a bit dim and AI is a bad tool for the job.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#204

Post by JoeAltmaier »

leereeves wrote: post #202
michaelt wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why sell cars that can go faster than $MaxSpeedInYourCountry ??? Politicians today have three choices: (1) Set and enforce low speed limits, large numbers of drivers make low-impact complaints. (2) Set and enforce high speed limits, small numbers of parents of dead children make high-impact complaints. (3) Set low speed limits but don't enforce them. Anti-speed campaigners and road users are both satisfied. In my cou…

In response to aggressive use of traffic cameras, people in a number of cities and states have passed propositions banning their use. A switch to (1) might have similar effects, motivating the people to force a switch to (2).

Any use of traffic cameras is seen as 'aggressive'. It inevitably results in hundreds of tickets that otherwise wouldn't be written, affecting hundreds of citizens in a way they see as intrusive and 'unfair'. For better or worse.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#205

Post by tertius »

zuminator wrote: post #198
tertius wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the real problem is differential in speed. So a car going 80 in a 60 hitting a car going 30 in a 60 is worse than a car going 80 in a 60 hitting a car going 60. Now I'd rather everyone stay within a narrow limit and not go over the 'limit'. Differential kills.

Do you have any support for this argument at all? It seems to overlook the reality of the situation. When one car is in a collision with another, regardless of their relative velocities, when they collide, in a serious accident they will both rapidly decelerate to a speed of zero. That's what the danger is. Their absolute speed has dangers above and beyond their relative velocities -- less control of the vehicle and…

I'm not saying that differential is all that matters. A car doing zero and one doing 20 in an accident is much better than the 80 vs. 70 example.

What I'm saying is apples to apples.

Speed limit is 60, car doing 50 + car doing 80 is a lot more dangerous than two cars doing 60. In both an accident and in actually causing one to begin with.

I agree with most of what you're saying.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#206

Post by JoeAltmaier »

michaelt wrote: post #185
snarfybarfy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what kind of right would breaking the speed limit push that citizens could possible want to have changed? I am all for hardcoded speed limits. Why sell cars that can go faster than $MaxSpeedInYourCountry ??? Other than that I think you made a good point.

Why sell cars that can go faster than $MaxSpeedInYourCountry ??? Politicians today have three choices: (1) Set and enforce low speed limits, large numbers of drivers make low-impact complaints. (2) Set and enforce high speed limits, small numbers of parents of dead children make high-impact complaints. (3) Set low speed limits but don't enforce them. Anti-speed campaigners and road users are both satisfied. In my cou…

Anarchy! I remember my first time through Chicago at 7PM years ago, merging onto an 11 lane highway with a 45mph speed limit and finding everybody, absolutely everybody, going 80.

Some enforcement has to be done or it gets out of hand ever so quickly

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#207

Post by tertius »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #199
zuminator wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any support for this argument at all? It seems to overlook the reality of the situation. When one car is in a collision with another, regardless of their relative velocities, when they collide, in a serious accident they will both rapidly decelerate to a speed of zero. That's what the danger is. Their absolute speed has dangers above and beyond their relative velocities -- less control of the vehicle and…

Right - a head-on collision between objects of equal mass and velocity is equivalent to one hitting a brick wall (or immovable object) - it loses all its kinetic energy on the spot, turning it into heat and mechanical work (e.g. crushing the car and driver). Objects of slightly different mass or velocity means the work done on each is shifted, the heavier or faster one 'winning' a bit but still. The absolute values o…

Agreed regarding absolute value, my usage of differential is not comparing different scenarios but focused on one.

So 25 mph + 40 mph in a 25 mph is dangerous.

80 mph + 55 mph in a 55 mph is dangerous.

Obviously the former has much less energy, but within itself, the differential is what creates the most accidents and danger.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#208

Post by compcoffee »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #87
Strongerpass wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

You might be factually correct, but you are misunderstanding the point of the parent poster. What makewavesnotwar is saying is simply that making exaggerated arguments for this technology in the name of making us safer is not a sufficient reason to introduce the technology. Perhaps if they had used larger numbers like 50 MPH relative to 60MPH that point would have been made clearer.

>Perhaps if they had used larger numbers like 50 MPH relative to 60MPH that point would have been made clearer.

If there's no difference between 30 and 40, 40 and 50, 50 and 60...then I suppose there's no difference between 30 and 60?

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#209

Post by pytyper2 »

makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

"And I'm much more likely to be killed by a random traffic accident (only time I've been hit on my bike was by a white women driving a Ford) or domestic terrorist/psychopath than an immigrant."

Are you using your experience with the Ford to support that claim?

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#210

Post by pytyper2 »

durkie wrote: post #102
makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

This was something that came up shortly after the Snowden documents were released. I don't remember who made the point (maybe Moxie Marlinspike), but they pointed out how important it is to be able to break the law. That breaking the law is an vital means of effecting change in the US: kids smoke pot illegally and grow up to be adults that push to legalize it. Gay people are more and more open and successfully push f…

Civil disobedience is a real thing, the first example that comes to mind is ignoring laws that require a front license plate, specifically because it reduces the likelihood that your vehicle tag will be caught on camera, those automated ticket system might move on to the next plate if they don't get a scan. I totally agree with you.
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