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Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

carlosrdrz.es

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Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#201

Post by Draiken »

dsnuh wrote: post #177
whydoineedthis wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless you already know how to do it. i can setup a production ready cluster in under a day and as long as things are containerized, run them likety split. Hardly insane once you know how it works.

An on-prem "production ready" k8s cluster in under a day? What kind of businesses are you setting this up for? Are these all greenfield projects? I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that. We run on-prem k8s, on bare metal and VMs. Integration with existing storage (we use NetApp Solidfire and NFS), load balancers, firewalls, backup strategy, DR, etc. takes weeks, if not months of work. But we may disagree on wha…

Key word there being "on-prem".

The hard part of Kubernetes is setting up the cluster. If you are using an existing k8s master, it should be fairly easy.

One day of course seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me :)

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#202

Post by Draiken »

dsnuh wrote: post #187
Draiken wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is proving my point. They're basically the same, but one is completely dynamic and the other will have to be changed as soon as anything changes. We've been using Kubernetes in production for almost two years now and I have yet to face a big API change that breaks everything. The core APIs are stable. There's a lot of new stuff added, but nothing that breaks backwards compatibility. As you just said, if…

I think the key element here is that you are using GKE. Managed cloud Kubernetes, and self-hosted on-prem Kubernetes are two different beasts. Yes, it's easy when you don't actually have to run the cluster yourself. Ansible has its warts, but it is great for managing and configuring individual servers.

Yes I agree. But in the context of this article, we're talking about small projects. So I wouldn't expect the need for an on-prem setup.

In fact I've used Kubespray[1] to setup a cluster with Ansible before with mild success. Nothing production ready, but it's actually a good tool for that job. At the end of the day you can't run Kubernetes on Kubernetes :D

[1]: https://github.com/kubernetes-incubator/kubespray

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#203

Post by dsnuh »

Draiken wrote: post #201
dsnuh wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An on-prem "production ready" k8s cluster in under a day? What kind of businesses are you setting this up for? Are these all greenfield projects? I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that. We run on-prem k8s, on bare metal and VMs. Integration with existing storage (we use NetApp Solidfire and NFS), load balancers, firewalls, backup strategy, DR, etc. takes weeks, if not months of work. But we may disagree on wha…

Key word there being "on-prem". The hard part of Kubernetes is setting up the cluster. If you are using an existing k8s master, it should be fairly easy. One day of course seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me :)

I thought GP comment was replying to this in GGP comment:

>IMO running your own Kubernetes cluster for a company is insanity unless you have a very good reason to do so.

To me, "running your own" means "on-prem", and it did seem to me that the response of "I can create production ready in a day" was directed at that, which I whole-heartedly disagree with.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#204

Post by zymhan »

stronglikedan wrote: post #193
zymhan wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do if you're programming in assembly. Developers need to understand how the layer underneath their code works. If you're writing Java, you should understand the JVM. If you're writing C, you should understand the compiler.

One layer, maybe, but should you be able to deploy any type of web server on every OS if you're writing a web app? I'm not so sure.

> One layer

Yes, that's why I said "layer beneath" and not "layerS beneath"

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#206

Post by dsnuh »

Draiken wrote: post #202
dsnuh wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key element here is that you are using GKE. Managed cloud Kubernetes, and self-hosted on-prem Kubernetes are two different beasts. Yes, it's easy when you don't actually have to run the cluster yourself. Ansible has its warts, but it is great for managing and configuring individual servers.

Yes I agree. But in the context of this article, we're talking about small projects. So I wouldn't expect the need for an on-prem setup. In fact I've used Kubespray[1] to setup a cluster with Ansible before with mild success. Nothing production ready, but it's actually a good tool for that job. At the end of the day you can't run Kubernetes on Kubernetes :D [1]: https://github.com/kubernetes-incubator/kubespray

I guess it depends on your definition of "small projects". I agree with the article that if you are interested in getting something out there for people to use and see what kind of interest you get, then adding Kubernetes to the mix doesn't really get you there faster. If anything, I think it would slow you down, unless we are talking about a very trivial app.

I was responding more to the comments I had been reading, not the premise of the article.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#207

Post by jitl »

barrystaes wrote: post #20
jitl wrote: post #4

I’m itching to replace my home server’s FreeBSD with Linux and Kubernetes. I use it (& build dev tools for others) at work plenty so for me, the learning curve is in the past. I’m not sure if I would recommend this journey for others, but I also wouldn’t recommend FreeBSD to anyone, either. In both cases, you know what you’re getting in to - something complex, opinionated, powerful, and industrial strength.

Try Unraid on your home server: boots from USB and runs in memory, no raid risks but have network share span several HDDs, parity HDDs, use SSD for cache. No kubernetes involved - just a webinterface to run containers, install dockers as "apps" on your server. And Unraid is linux, you can but dont need to tinker. Unraid is how i started using Dockers and became happy friends with my home server again. (tm)

I think you misunderstand me: my objective is to tinker. Before, I was tinkering with FreeBSD, now I will be tinkering with Kubernetes. Thanks for the recommendation though.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#208

Post by dsnuh »

Draiken wrote: post #202
dsnuh wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key element here is that you are using GKE. Managed cloud Kubernetes, and self-hosted on-prem Kubernetes are two different beasts. Yes, it's easy when you don't actually have to run the cluster yourself. Ansible has its warts, but it is great for managing and configuring individual servers.

Yes I agree. But in the context of this article, we're talking about small projects. So I wouldn't expect the need for an on-prem setup. In fact I've used Kubespray[1] to setup a cluster with Ansible before with mild success. Nothing production ready, but it's actually a good tool for that job. At the end of the day you can't run Kubernetes on Kubernetes :D [1]: https://github.com/kubernetes-incubator/kubespray

I really think that all Kubernetes related posts and articles need a footnote -

"Kubernetes allows you to scale simply!"*

"Kubernetes takes minutes to set up!"*

*When using GKE or another managed service.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#209

Post by beat »

Back when I was trying to do a startup full-time, I avoided Kubernetes because of the steep learning curve. Now that I'm back to being a regular employee, I've learned Kubernetes out of necessity, and it's great. So if I go back to working on the startup, I'll do it on Kubernetes, because it will save me time and ops grief. But it will save time and grief because I already know it now.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#210

Post by imhoguy »

giobox wrote: post #197

I agree that Kubernetes for personal projects is likely going to be totally overkill for many, but I disagree that containers themselves are overkill, which this author also suggests. These are arguably two separate issues entirely, and lumping them together is extremely misleading. I happily run all my (very small) side projects in containers without Kubernetes and it's really pretty simple to do so. As soon as this…

Ansible + Docker play well together and are both a weekend effort to learn and use on side-project. Both work fine for me on cheap dedicated machine. Ansible is a good documentation of how the bare metal host is configured including Docker setup and compose like config[0]. Docker handles apps setup, isolation and local networking nicely.

Then playing with Kubernetes on private project would have only Résumé-value for me.

[0] https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/modules/docker_conta... (check other docker modules too)

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