Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#201

Post by saagarjha » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:44 PM UTC

copperx wrote: post #173

orev wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the physical mechanisms required to allow a user replaceable battery are fragile and take up valuable space. It’s not a simple matter of just allowing it. It could actually lead to more repairs due to failure of those parts, and you certainly could no longer make the backs out of glass or other exotic materials. They would all have to be plastic.

Even though I hate things made out of plastic, plastic IS the right material for building a phone. Plastic is hard to scratch, has grip, is lightweight, and is hard to break.

Remember iPhone 5c? People absolutely hated it because it was plastic (well, that, and some other reasons–but mainly because it seemed "cheap").

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#202

Post by AstralStorm » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:45 PM UTC

Pamar wrote: post #8

cryptos wrote: post #3

That is all very well and I really appreciate Apple's long support for iPhones, but Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries in its phones and even in notebooks. A battery is a wear part and should be easy to replace. Every thing else leads to more waste.

I do not necessarily disagree about the fact that batteries should be easily replaceable. On the other hand, I do not think that Apple's motivation was pure greed: if you make the battery an easily replaceable part you also need to encase it in a shell, and make it robust enough that even untrained users can safely handle these. This means that you have to make it bigger (externally) sacrificing actual internal volum…

You do not need a shell. A pouch of sufficient strength is good enough. The tricky part is getting it to make contact consistently and to not worsen the cooling too much.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#203

Post by saagarjha » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:47 PM UTC

basch wrote: post #105

janlaureys wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 5 series and SE phones are pretty easy to repair indeed. I've replaced a screen and battery with no experience, a few tools from ifixit and a youtube video without much hassle. It's gone pretty downhill from there with the iphone 6. Especially because the screens are much more intricate.

The newer phones are easier to lift the screen out of, and replace the battery? Have you taken apart a 4 and a 6? A 6 is MUCH easier.

Replacing the battery in an iPhone 4 requires taking off the back cover, not the screen. And it was really a pleasant process when I did it two weeks ago. I had expected much worse, but I only had to get through three screws (granted, they were a bit small, but still).

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#204

Post by AstralStorm » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

archagon wrote: post #180

collyw wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of other manufacturers manage a decent replaceable battery, I don't see why Apple can't.

Other manufacturers tend to also have way bigger phones.

Are you sure? The differences between say Samsung J3 and iPhone 6 are negligible (iPhone 8 is even slightly fatter). About 1.5mm thickness and that mostly because plastics have to be thick to survive falls and not because of removable battery. If it were made partly of steel it could be a match.

The size is different (J3 is bigger) and materials are a bit better in the iPhone... But we're comparing a budget phone with a flagship here.

Oh, and the battery is also bigger.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#205

Post by ArchTypical » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:53 PM UTC

When my 2k mac became unsupported after 4 years, Apple lost me permanently.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#206

Post by NeoBasilisk » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

soundwave106 wrote: post #140

krn wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing smartphones is, that many people actually do want to replace them every few years for a better camera, a better screen, or for some trending feature-of-the-year, like a fingerprint reader or wireless charging. Aren't most Americans replacing their perfectly working flagship smartphones every 2 years?

That used to be the case, actually life cycles in earlier years were sometimes even shorter than that (apparently it was only a year and a half back in 2007 -- http://reconanalytics.com/2015/02/2014-us-mobile-phone-sales... ). But several articles seem to point out that the upgrade cycle is slowing down -- up to 2 and 3/4 years according to this source ( https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/20...…

Yes, maturing technologies seem to have longer life cycles. It's the same thing that happened with PCs. Compare the life cycle of a PC made in 1990 compared to one made in 2015.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#207

Post by birksherty » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #84

beloch wrote: post #12

You know what helps products last longer and reduces waste at the same time? Repairability . The repairability of apple products is so poor that even Apple can't fix most of their own products without replacing surprisingly large portions of any given Apple device. End user repairability has been utterly neglected. Disassembly is frequently impossible without causing damage, and components such as batteries are frequ…

Repairabiliy is important. But I think durability is more important as it requires no action by the user. iPhones are pretty solid as far as lasting a long time. I’m using a 5S that is 3 years old and it’s my daily driver. I passed on my old 4 that is still being used as a Netflix/ web browser. This is contrary to competitor phones that have hardware issues as well as ability to keep getting software updates. Nexus 5…

I have an 6 year old cheap Chinese phone which I use as a podcast player now. It has removable battery. I have dropped it many times on cement floor without breaking anything. Old Nokia phones also didn't break so easily and repairable. We still have some working Nokia which were repaired in authorised service centre. So I don't know why people are saying you can only choose one of them.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#208

Post by birksherty » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

orev wrote: post #149

kimikelku wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how big the adoption is in the US for nokia "dumb phones", but in Europe they sell really good. The first thing you do when you take them out of the box is to put the battery in. Even if the person at the store does this for you, just by watching you can easly do it yourself. And since iphones are a huge role model, if they implement it others will follow along.

All of the physical mechanisms required to allow a user replaceable battery are fragile and take up valuable space. It’s not a simple matter of just allowing it. It could actually lead to more repairs due to failure of those parts, and you certainly could no longer make the backs out of glass or other exotic materials. They would all have to be plastic.

I don't know where all these wrong facts are coming from. Nokia phones were not fragile. I have dropped them many times. The battery gets out and I can insert it back and it works again. Nothing breaks. And they work year after year. I also have a cheap Chinese android phone that behaves like that. I believe mobile companies (and tech reviewers) have spread lies in this regard.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#209

Post by Someone1234 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #183

Someone1234 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, which is why I know how poorly those pull strips work. They often break off leaving the battery firmly attached and it needs to be heated/pried off (which can be quite dangerous). The pull strip was a nice addition, but they need to improve their strength so they cannot break.

Retail employees have to do the same procedure; they're instructed to pry the battery if the strip breaks. So I don't think this is a particularly difficult procedure.

I didn't say it was "difficult" I said it was "dangerous." If an employee punctures the battery it can cause a fire.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#210

Post by badpun » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #172

badpun wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have this information. However, IMO the current Apple's approach suits a vendor of $300 phones, not $1000+ ones. If Apple really wanted to be the technologic leader in this field, the gigantic markup and the billions of dollars that they make on phones should be funneled into engineering excellence (stability, security, performance, device longevity) and not gimmicks (face recognition). Unfortunately, it seem…

I'm pretty sure the parent comment wanted you to talk about Android, where vendors ending software support and updates before the phone is even bought is the norm.

If they’re cheap, then it’s somewhat expected that they are crap. Not so for expensive phones (if what you described is the case for expensive Android phones as well, then of course they’re even worse than Apple).