Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Then they proceed to ask candidates to derive a card shuffling algorithm on a whiteboard in 30 minutes and fail them from the interview if the running time complexity would be too high or if they can’t mathematically prove the result would be a uniform draw from the space of permutations of the cards. I'd actually expect a surprisingly large fraction of programmers to be able to do reasonably OK on that particular…
For those who haven't seen it, here is how you can show with a counting and divisibility argument that a common algorithm many come up with to shuffle is not a fair shuffle. Here's the algorithm, in pseudo code (yes, with 1-based arrays!): let a = [1, 2, 3, ...., N] # the items to shuffle for i = 1 to N j = random_in(1, N) swap(a[i], a[j]) Imagine that random_in() makes a log of all its return values. In this program…
What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
201–210 of 233 posts
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Then they proceed to ask candidates to derive a card shuffling algorithm on a whiteboard in 30 minutes and fail them from the interview if the running time complexity would be too high or if they can’t mathematically prove the result would be a uniform draw from the space of permutations of the cards. I'd actually expect a surprisingly large fraction of programmers to be able to do reasonably OK on that particular…
For those who haven't seen it, here is how you can show with a counting and divisibility argument that a common algorithm many come up with to shuffle is not a fair shuffle. Here's the algorithm, in pseudo code (yes, with 1-based arrays!): let a = [1, 2, 3, ...., N] # the items to shuffle for i = 1 to N j = random_in(1, N) swap(a[i], a[j]) Imagine that random_in() makes a log of all its return values. In this program…
All we have to do now to see that Fisher-Yates is fair is show that each shuffle can be produced by it. Given a desired shuffle, it is easy to construct the trace that results in it, and we are done.
You mean: Given a desired shuffle, you show you can construct the only trace that results in it.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
The candidate can also be toxic and unprofessional, this is a two-way street. What if the company doesn't want to bring "sexism, bullying and worse" into the group?
then wouldn't we would be able to correlate rates of lower toxic behavior, like harassment and conflict, with the practice of 'cultural fit'? like doing some kind of empirical study? ironically i would wager that the people who can pass a 'cultural fit' test with the highest score might actually be Sociopaths, since they are the world experts at being charming to complete and utter strangers.
My point is that from day 1 you have to protect your group from outsiders who are unprofessional, toxic, and will sink morale and productivity. How you do it is up to you, but the issue cannot be naively framed as "companies are bad and sexist, while pure, good-natured, kind human beings are rejected from positions they deserve unfairly".
That's a nice fairy tale that falls apart once you yourself spend a few years hiring.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> understanding anything isn't required Things are truly understood in solitude not with a gun to your head. Also, what a developer knows this second has less bearing on what they could learn than often thought. No one knows everything.
No one knows everything. You should at least know the basics and be able to apply them. I'm rather shocked by the number of 3.75, 4.0 students from good schools who can spout 1st principles, then utterly fail at applying them.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#205Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#206For me more important than hiring the right people is how to retain the good ones and prevent assholes to prevail and destroy the nice atmosphere at work.
Prevention is nothing if you don't act when the problem occurs. And eventually it will.
I can't believe that companies like Amazon or Google with > 100000 employees only hire great people culturally fit. We are animals, and when put together there is always someone that wants to prevail. And there is always the culturally unfit that somehow sneaks in. The difference is how you tackle that. I have seen and been in companies where the action was literally doing nothing. You have to change to behave in a different way towards the asshole, in order to make your life easier. That's the answer. Lots of "Let's hire for good fit", but no "how to deal with aholes at work that disrupt your work environment".
Ps. People should read the "no as*hole rule" book. A first good resource on how to deal with such people.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
if we temporarily define asshole to mean things like: - narcissistic - more interested in asserting dominance over other employees than advancing the good of the project - likely to divert the project to advance some personal goals - constantly generates interpersonal conflict then yes, you aren't getting as much as you should out of your engineering organization.
But it's not uncommon to label someone an asshole for being comfortable saying "That's a bad idea and it won't work; here's why..." rather than beating around the bush. On the other hand, someone who is willing to "divert the project to advance some personal goals" all too often, will be very likable and sociable and not considered an asshole. There was a phrase at a company I used to work at "he doesn't need the pro…
In my experience, that is rather uncommon. You may be ignored after saying that or not believed, but you get rarely labeled asshole for that alone. Frankly, in my experience, this is stereotype that people who are have hard time expressing themselves constructively and have trouble controlling anger after not getting their way like to throw around so that they sound better.
> On the other hand, someone who is willing to "divert the project to advance some personal goals" all too often, will be very likable and sociable and not considered an asshole. There was a phrase at a company I used to work at "he doesn't need the project to succeed, he just needs it to not fail", and there were a lot of people who would drag a project on long enough to move up; really pleasant, friendly people... who didn't care who got hurt once they moved on to the next project.
Bad management, run away as fast as you can.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assholery is not just a question of preference. Generally, when we talk about assholes we talk about people who act unethically, lie, take advantage of others, steal whenever they get away with it and so on. Yes it is bad to build next Enron or Theranos. And yes they will cross bounds of federally protected class, because in asshole culture people need to take advantage of others as much as possible - it is not optio…
You are conflating unethical behavior with unpleasant - two very different things. If it was unclear, I am explicitly referring to the latter, which again is highly relative. A company full of dog lovers with a pet friendly office would have a high 'asshole score' to someone who is allergic to dogs while at the same time being highly appealing to some. Accommodating 'poor culture fits' in this hypothetical company wo…
Also, dog lovers I know in real life are not assholes to people with allergies or fears. My experience is that most accept allergies as real medical issues and would seek solution.
I also think that you are using the word asshole to liberally as in meaning "anyone who annoyed me mildly". That is not how "asshole" or "asshole culture" terms are normally used. Why being unpleasant is part of being asshole typically, it is not the whole thing. Typically, there are very real negative externalities on top of just being unpleasant (for example other people wasting time dealing with asshole temper tamptrums, people no voicing objections due to them or having to tip toe around him or spending a lot of effort to work around that person peculiarities etc).
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#209My experience about 'culture fit' was that it was a code word for ageism. Sometimes they'd be even more direct if I pushed back. This wasn't at the end of a 45 minute interview, it was in the first five minutes after I'd already passed the technical review. Might not be true in every instance, but I absolutely cringe when I hear that phrase.
He didn't get it. He was sure that her expression changed negatively very slightly once she saw him on the video conference. My friend is quite sure it was due to either ageism or subtle racism. He is not white.
He's moved on but it confirmed to him fair is not a word he believes in anymore.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
CS not being a profession doesn't preclude acting professionally. As for why you shouldn't be a yes-man. I am an individual, I'm educated, skilled, and have two decades of experience and what I consider to be generally good judgement. I always attempt to give of my best and to do what is right for the best interest of the project and company/organisation. If that means pointing out facts which are wrong, ill-consider…
dear young people who are reading the above comment. IMHO dont be afraid to take it with a grain of salt. don't expect to be rewarded for saying no. don't expect a light feather ruffling. don't expect light consequences. be prepared to get fired. be prepared to get demoted. be prepared to lose your health insurance. be prepared to change your industry. be prepared for the realities that most people face. if you say n…
Do you have a job where you simply do as you are told, like a private being shouted at by a drill sergeant, or do you have a career where your expertise and contributions have some significant value?
Work is full of compromises. No matter how hard you try, at some point you're going to end up giving advice or information to people which runs counter to what they would have preferred to hear. "No" is rather absolute. What would be more typical is suggesting that a course of action might be unwise, and suggesting possible alternatives along with the tradeoffs for each approach, i.e. criticise but in a constructive way. And let others decide which pros and cons are most important. You bring specific expertise and insight, and provide that to the group and decision makers, along with qualified recommendations, maybe very strong recommendations if the situation warranted it. Your recommendations and advice might well be ignored, but it's still important to make them in the first place so that they are at least known and considered.
You don't just live your life to satisfy your boss. You also have to live with yourself. Sometimes, for example, companies make very short-term decisions at the expense of their own longer-term viability and at the expense of their existing customers. Who internally acts as the voice of those customers and the future company if not you? If you didn't at least raise questionable design tradeoffs so that the consequences were well understood and informed decisions could be made, you are doing your employer a disservice (in my opinion). It doesn't matter what the ultimate decision is, but that you act professionally and provide all the necessary information for others to work with. If you get fired for trying to do your best for the company, you're well out of a bad company.