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Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

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Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#201

Post by deadmik3 »

komali2 wrote: post #192
deadmik3 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the argument is that if you don't like eBay it's easy to just go make your own. I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just assuming that part of "making your own" is getting the other users to sign up, since an auction site with no one to bid isn't very useful. So it's the same with ISPs: if you don't like it just make your own.

You cannot make your own ISP. You can make your own eBay. There is no competition for Comcast, there is for eBay. It appears your very premise is flawed but I welcome you to demonstrate why this isn't true.

Sure I can make my own ISP. It just won't be an international network with billions of people on it. But I'll set up a server in my house with my new ebay on it and connect it to my neighbor running his new facebook. We could even do it wirelessly.

It won't be that great, because he wants to share pictures of his kids and I want to sell my funko pops, but it's definitely easy. Unless your definition of an ISP inherently includes a connection to millions of people, in which case I don't understand why your definition of an eBay doesn't as well?

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#202

Post by wvenable »

deadmik3 wrote: post #201
komali2 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot make your own ISP. You can make your own eBay. There is no competition for Comcast, there is for eBay. It appears your very premise is flawed but I welcome you to demonstrate why this isn't true.

Sure I can make my own ISP. It just won't be an international network with billions of people on it. But I'll set up a server in my house with my new ebay on it and connect it to my neighbor running his new facebook. We could even do it wirelessly. It won't be that great, because he wants to share pictures of his kids and I want to sell my funko pops, but it's definitely easy. Unless your definition of an ISP inheren…

That's funny because your eBay clone will have a connection to millions of people.

You also seem to forget that the "I" in ISP stands for Internet. Your connection to your neighbor is just a LAN/WAN and by definition is not an ISP.

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#203

Post by wvenable »

deadmik3 wrote: post #198
komali2 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalence. Not only does eBay have actual alternatives, the start up cost is much higher for a new ISP. Startup cost is not equivalent to "getting customers" cost. I can launch eBay 2 tomorrow, I cannot do that for Comcast2.

But what makes eBay eBay isn't their startup cost, it's the millions of people buying and selling items that make it a usable service instead of just one guy posting pictures of his funko pops for sale. So yeah, I could launch ebay2 tomorrow but it would just be me on there. I could actually do that with Comcast2 as well, just by turning on a computer in my house but if it's not connected to anything else it's about…

By that argument, eBay itself on September 3, 1995 wasn't eBay either. When over the last 22 years did eBay actually become eBay?

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#204

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

danjoc wrote: post #89
EpiphanyMachine wrote: post #2

The system seems broken when states representing more than 50% of the population have to sue in court to try to change something like this. Instead with that much backing it should be done through the legislative branch. I'm concerned about the growing use of courts to try to decide policies because our legislative bodies can't work together and instead just try to force one sided issues through or block each other.…

>The system seems broken when When it does stuff you disagree with personally. That's a pretty universal feeling. While you may get plenty of internet points from your friends that agree with you, you have to realize, you are the one with the unpopular opinion this time. >50% of the population Counting illegals. 22 states isn't 50% either. This is the "not my president" argument all over again. The people won. ISPs w…

> It's time FAANG pays their share for video streaming bandwidth.

They do though.

FAANG pay their respective ISPs for X gigabit connections to their data centers. I pay my ISP for a Y megabit connection.

I shouldn't have to pay my ISP extra to have access to Netflix just because Netflix will use up a constant 8-12 mbps data stream. Why should I pay more to access Netflix versus any other high-bandwidth application?

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#205

Post by komali2 »

deadmik3 wrote: post #201
komali2 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot make your own ISP. You can make your own eBay. There is no competition for Comcast, there is for eBay. It appears your very premise is flawed but I welcome you to demonstrate why this isn't true.

Sure I can make my own ISP. It just won't be an international network with billions of people on it. But I'll set up a server in my house with my new ebay on it and connect it to my neighbor running his new facebook. We could even do it wirelessly. It won't be that great, because he wants to share pictures of his kids and I want to sell my funko pops, but it's definitely easy. Unless your definition of an ISP inheren…

If it's not connected to the internet, it's not an ISP.

How will you access global DNS?

Can I ask your motivations here? You seem very keen on muddying the waters in this discussion.

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#206

Post by komali2 »

deadmik3 wrote: post #198
komali2 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalence. Not only does eBay have actual alternatives, the start up cost is much higher for a new ISP. Startup cost is not equivalent to "getting customers" cost. I can launch eBay 2 tomorrow, I cannot do that for Comcast2.

But what makes eBay eBay isn't their startup cost, it's the millions of people buying and selling items that make it a usable service instead of just one guy posting pictures of his funko pops for sale. So yeah, I could launch ebay2 tomorrow but it would just be me on there. I could actually do that with Comcast2 as well, just by turning on a computer in my house but if it's not connected to anything else it's about…

When was microsoft microsoft

when was twitter twitter

when was facebook facebook

Comcast was an Internet Service Provider when it Provided a Service that allowed access to the Internet.

It will take far longer to route your home server to global DNS, all while bypassing comcast, than it would to register that server's IP on the DNS with your new URL, ebay2.com

But, that's just the same thing I, and many others, have been saying, for about five posts deep now, so I'm curious where this fight of yours is coming from.

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#207

Post by jrockway »

User23 wrote: post #173
jrockway wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many net neutrality supporters stood up for Alex Jones? Are ISPs refusing to peer with Alex Jones? If not, this has nothing to do with net neutrality.

If net neutrality is exclusively a regulatory power grab by Google and the like at the expense of traditional ISPs, then it's true Alex Jones has nothing to do with it. However, if one acknowledges some kind of moral principle that content shouldn't be discriminated against based on the source, then one has to show why that should apply to traditional ISPs and not to the newer Internet companies that run all the same…

It seems unrelated to me. If I write an Op-Ed and send it to the New York Times, it's not a net neutrality issue if they refuse to publish it. Maybe they personally hate me. Maybe my idea seems dumb to them. Myabe I ka'nt spel rite. Even though The NYT has a website, that doesn't mean they are under any obligation to publish something there just because I want them to.

I don't see why Facebook is any different. It's their website, they have no obligation to publish anything.

Whether or not you believe Facebook can exercise editorial control over user-submitted content, it's not a net neutrality issue. Net neutrality is about moving IP packets around without charging different rates based on what's in the headers. That's all.

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#208

Post by randyrand »

xena wrote: post #43
randyrand wrote: post #21

this is one of the main reasons why states rights is important. Here are the big ones: 1. each state can be tailored to its population 2. each state acts an an incubator for new ideas and other states can follow 3. usa citizens have more choice in who governs then and can easily move between them

The problem is that people poor enough they can't choose to move states get kinda screwed over.

getting rid of states rights doesn’t give them any more options either.

this is tangential.

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#209

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

justinzollars wrote: post #40

I would like to see Twitter, Google, CloudFlare and Facebook classified as public utilities. While Alex Jones is a nut case (And shouldn't be defended), other less publicized incidents of censorship by Social Media companies has occurred (related to picking winners between Israel and Palestine) [1]. While I am a Democrat who has been elected in the past, I agree with the conservative argument that: Corporate censorsh…

Private entities are under no obligation to be a platform for all speech. Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1357/

If someone comes on to Hacker News and posts racial slurs, shouldn't HN have the right to ban that user? Wouldn't that be censorship?

Re: Twenty-two states ask appeals court to bring back net neutrality

#210

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

deadmik3 wrote: post #198
komali2 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalence. Not only does eBay have actual alternatives, the start up cost is much higher for a new ISP. Startup cost is not equivalent to "getting customers" cost. I can launch eBay 2 tomorrow, I cannot do that for Comcast2.

But what makes eBay eBay isn't their startup cost, it's the millions of people buying and selling items that make it a usable service instead of just one guy posting pictures of his funko pops for sale. So yeah, I could launch ebay2 tomorrow but it would just be me on there. I could actually do that with Comcast2 as well, just by turning on a computer in my house but if it's not connected to anything else it's about…

But the availability is what matters.

If I want to make an ISP available to even just a small neighborhood, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars of investment. Scaling it up so an entire city can use my ISP is an investment in the millions of dollars.

If I want to make a new eBay available to the world, it's a couple days of software development for a proof of concept and a few dollars for a VM in AWS/Azure/GCC. Polishing it a bit and scaling it up is only a few more months development and possibly a couple thousand in server costs, which your revenue would be scaling nicely with.

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