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Six Months at Riot Games

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Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#201

Post by camel_Snake »

pandasun wrote: post #90

Does she have any recordings of those things that were said? Since it happened so often? Because this entire thread, with lots of people being angry at Riot Games, is based on someone's word. Not saying it's not true, but you might want to proceed with some more caution. I've seen a friend's life destroyed (he committed suicide) by things his ex were saying about him. None of which were true (I heard her admit to thi…

She mentions these same claims are drawn directly from her 8 page resignation letter years ago.

What exactly would she have to gain from making these accusations up?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#202

Post by camel_Snake »

zimablue wrote: post #139
ck425 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I saw men acting the way men do in a very male environment and objectifying/trying to sleep with women." Enough with the boys will be boys angle. That behavior doesn't have to be the default male behavior. It shouldn't be the default male behavior. Enough is enough, that's not ok anymore. And we men need start calling each other out on it.

Why shouldn't it be the default male group behavior (for some ages and environments) to discuss women? Is it that trying to sleep with women is immoral or that considering their looks is immoral or that discussing it is immoral? I guess the core way I disagree with modern culture is that there's this idea that women are either viewed as objects or as humans. It's kind of obvious that they're both, if you say that wom…

> You can and should view women BOTH as objects and humans

But did the company demonstrate this at all? I only read about objectification. If they truly saw women as humans as well they wouldn't have laughed off her suggestion that some of the female characters in the game could be anything other than a sex object.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#203

Post by softawre »

ethbro wrote: post #169
e_proxus wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's obviously a scale of how things are at various workplaces, and how acceptable various things are in different cultures. I've worked at a gaming company in Europe before where among other things female team members told me they've been asked by someone "how it feels to have the biggest boobs in the team" when another female in the team left. The company later introduced an inclusivity effort and a code of cond…

There are a number of studies that show that implementing new guidelines / yearly rote training is about the least effective thing you can do to change corporate culture. The most effective tends to be non-adversarial, regular peer meetings where actual discussions can be had. And yet every enterprise I've ever worked at has the same canned training systems. Or implements them in response to an incident.

Do companies care about being effective or care about covering their liability?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#204

Post by acct1771 »

Djvacto wrote: post #63
shard972 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is something wrong with a culture that feels the need to supress what is effectively amateur comedy going on within small groups. Targeted harassment sure, that's not something to just blindly protect but as a homosexual, i see more harm in trying to police jimmy calling his friends faggots playing CoD than I see in allowing people to speak their minds. Until someone can posit a great explanation for wh…

Your statements don't seem to line up with each other, so I'm a bit confused as to what side you're arguing for. However, assuming you are defending the use of homophobic or racial slurs as "amateur comedy" then I have to disagree. There is absolutely zero reason to defend it. There's no important discourse being suppressed by encouraging people not to use these words, and as a society there is a lot to lose by allow…

Free speech, as the Amendment is written, DOES cover hate speech in the US.

It does not cover speech that specifically calls for violence.

It is not a human right to alwaysbbe unoffended.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#205

Post by camel_Snake »

zimablue wrote: post #130
detaro wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a difference between "talking about women" and the things described in the article (and a lot of different ways of talking about women, which can be done without degrading language). Calling a coworker a "Ho" or complaining they'd not be willing to share a hotel room with an unknown man is not the same level as "they didn't like that we talk about women".

I think the Ho thing was clearly an attempt at humor, and an attempt to "bring her in" to the group. It's like an old job where I was called a coal miner (being the only guy from north England). It's a nice thing, you're taking stick but that's how male groups normally bond. Instead of taking the humor as it's intended she takes offense, and what's really happening is that instead of submitting to their culture and j…

> Being able to live your life always refusing to step outside your own culture is in itself kind of a form of privilege.

Isn't that exactly what the sexist bro culture she outlined is? Some coworkers were unable or unwilling to drop the parts of their personality that doesn't lend well to collaboration.

I like dirty, offensive jokes and I like to tease people - not to upset them it's just my sense of humor. My friends get that and are okay with it.

BUT I realize in an office environment these things don't help me be more effective, and they certainly don't help my colleagues be more effective, so I leave that part of myself at home. Same way I don't go on endlessly about my hobbies and passions outside of work during work hours. It's just not germane to getting shit done.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#206

Post by acct1771 »

pjc50 wrote: post #132
madengr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s the “we’re”? I don’t agree with YouTube banning Alex Jones and numerous gun channels. I’ll probably cancel my YouTube red subscription over it. 25 years ago you would find the KKK show on NYC public access cable. A round table of guys in hoods, with an AK-47 table piece, talking about African Jews. That was there due to governments freedom of speech protections. Government is now turning a blind eye while corpo…

> 25 years ago you would find the KKK show on NYC public access cable. A round table of guys in hoods, with an AK-47 table piece, talking about African Jews. If I were the FCC, I'd be shutting down those guys.

Guess it's a great thing you're not the FCC, then.

I'd be cool with the Black Panthers being the next slot.

If you're not, you don't understand, nor support, freedom of speech, or freedom of expression.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#207

Post by sctb »

danShumway wrote: post #171
nkozyra wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's often suppressed by those who are offended because they feel speaking up jeopardizes their job or acceptance with coworkers. Look how much is quietly endured in this very anecdote. Cases like this exist, where managers are subsumed into the culture (or passively even actively foster it), but more common is behavior that's increasingly tolerated because nobody wants to speak up because of the cultu…

There's a subset of users out in full force bravely downvoting anyone who sticks up for her or who dares to suggest that sexism might be an institutional, culturally widespread problem. Same reason this article went from the front page to the sixth in three hours. Don't worry about it.

Users often flag stories for crappy threads completely independently of the content, quality, relevance, or importance of the article.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#208

Post by sctb »

ggregoire wrote: post #124

Not sure why people are flagging this topic. (was on top of the first page 2min ago, it's on second page now)

Users often flag stories like this because of high-inflammation, low-information threads will plenty of flameage and little thought. We've turned off the flags here so the discussion can continue, but commenters should please take extra care to post civilly and substantively. We're here to think, not fight.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#209

Post by sctb »

pandasun wrote: post #120

The amount of white knights in this thread is absurd. She provided zero evidence and everyone is jumping to her rescue. Maybe wait for evidence first? Typical SF culture. Imagine if this was a guy accusing a woman. But that's different right? Yeah yeah, downvotes incoming... I'll take it..

You need to fix your commenting by following the guidelines much more closely or we'll ban the account.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#210

Post by TooBrokeToBeg »

belorn wrote: post #178
lsmarigo wrote: post #40

Interesting that this one is doing well compared to the longer in-depth kotaku article a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710188 - fwiw that piece has since been corroborated by a ton of former riot employees on twitter. At the risk of sounding overly cynical, this is all true and everyone knows about it, people feign disgust at these articles but we're all complicit and understanding that this is…

Nothing will change because no one addressing or discussing the underlying causes for a culture that is drenched in gender roles and a corresponding social status ladder. All focus is being spent on either attacking "them" in as much generalized way as possible or defending "us" and the product of that fight is almost always status quo and further polarization. Imagine if we instead used classical scientific method o…

> Nothing will change because no one addressing or discussing the underlying causes

What exactly are you describing? I don't see the same world you do. These stories are top concern and referenced in almost every forum from niche game communities to political discourse (ie everywhere). The underlying causes are assessed and measured in various countries (eg http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girl...) and is a topic of serious discussion. Seriously, what are you talking about, that you think it's being ignored in any fashion?

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