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Farewell, Google Maps

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Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#201

Post by ajross »

laGrenouille wrote: post #182
ajross wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: if these startups need a giant subsidized mapping product for free or else they aren't profitable, they weren't ever profitable . I mean, there's a real cry-me-a-river aspect here. No one has a Google-granted fundamental right to mapping. It's a free product Google released to drive traffic to their own offerings, and which they happen to make available for free for a lot of purposes. As it turns out, y…

The problem isn’t that Google wants to charge for a service. The issue is that they offered it for years for free or below cost effectively price gouging any competition. Now, with no alternatives they jack up the price. Classic monopolistic and anticompetitive behaviour.

Uh... the linked article compared 8 different competitors on various metrics. There are reasonable ways to disagree with Google's policy here, but "no alternatives" and "monopolistic" are just laughably silly.

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#202

Post by flukus »

ericd wrote: post #7

"Sudden change of policy by Google, which is directed specifically at startups (as smaller web sites should largely remain below even the new lower thresholds), is surely an unpleasant surprise for us and does not create much trust in Google as a vendor. In the future we would therefore keep our distance from Google Cloud and avoid deep integration with any Google services on which it can pull a similar trick. For ex…

> In the future we would therefore keep our distance from Google Cloud and avoid deep integration with any Google services on which it can pull a similar trick

It seems like they haven't learned anything at all. Sure it was google that shafted them in this case, but the problem isn't google, it's that their business is entirely dependent on a third party who has the power to do this. They rejected the option that would have prevented this from happening in the future with another company.

Oracle probably has a sales team on the way to their offices now.

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#203

Post by ucaetano »

komali2 wrote: post #155
C7H8N4O2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the case of maps, there weren't many great alternatives for a long time, due to Google sucking all the oxygen/profit potential out of the field with their excellent free offerings. There was a related discussion[0] on HN a few weeks ago that I found enlightening. Commentator ucaetano's phrasing of the strategy was "create a desert of profitability around you". The discussion of moats vs deserts found here [1] is…

Almost every conversation I've had with someone working at a startup in this city inevitably turns to the "so, are you worried Google will simply start offering your service for free?" I remember like 3 or 4 years ago having this conversation at a hackathon with a bunch of "Machine Learning" / "Sentiment Analysis" APIs present... right as google started offering both for free on their cloud platform.

Which most likely meant the startup was a feature or a product, not a company with a viable business model.

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#204

Post by lloydde »

zackmorris wrote: post #20
ericd wrote: post #7

"Sudden change of policy by Google, which is directed specifically at startups (as smaller web sites should largely remain below even the new lower thresholds), is surely an unpleasant surprise for us and does not create much trust in Google as a vendor. In the future we would therefore keep our distance from Google Cloud and avoid deep integration with any Google services on which it can pull a similar trick. For ex…

Is there something like Amazon or Google shopping with a list of prices for all products through time? Kind of like the Wayback Machine (archive.org) but for products. Maybe having a searchable historical database of everything imaginable and their prices would keep companies honest and prevent price gouging.

I find a good site like every few years, but they always disappear. My guess is there is more (some) money in B2B.

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#205

Post by dingo_bat »

It seems to me that in simplifying the cost structure, Google has excluded some use cases completely. Enterprise pricing should be as complicated as possible, to closely mirror the actual costs incurred by the service provider.

Treating every map load the same even though one user can move around the map a lot, zoom out till he can see the earth, etc. is not smart. A much better metric is number of tile loads, so that cost corresponds with usage.

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#206

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

pwg wrote: post #189
jseliger wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only came to the comments to upvote whoever mentioned OpenStreetMaps. It needs our love. This is the platform Maps.me is based on, correct? I ask because I downloaded Maps.me the other day, after reading HN, and have found it to be missing most businesses that I've attempted to search for. In addition, there seems to be no obvious way to suggest missing destinations. I too want Google/Apple maps alternatives to suc…

> I ask because I downloaded Maps.me the other day, after reading HN, and have found it to be missing most businesses that I've attempted to search for. In addition, there seems to be no obvious way to suggest missing destinations. You might try looking at OsmAnd. It too uses OpenStreetMap data, but it does allow you to add some amount of missing data as well (see https://osmand.net/features?id=osm-editing-plugin ).…

And one can of course also add data to OpenStreetMaps via a browser. I've been trying to add any businesses I've found missing.

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#207

Post by asfasgasg »

emodendroket wrote: post #200
laGrenouille wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn’t that Google wants to charge for a service. The issue is that they offered it for years for free or below cost effectively price gouging any competition. Now, with no alternatives they jack up the price. Classic monopolistic and anticompetitive behaviour.

Essentially the Google Reader effect, right? Where killing their offering basically killed the entire medium.

You've got the causality reversed here. The medium was dying, so the Reader product was killed.

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#208

Post by dingo_bat »

magicalist wrote: post #179
bhhaskin wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the problem. When Google first launched Maps it was free and they ran all of the other competition out of business. Now that all their competition are dead they want to charge for it. If that doesn't scream antitrust I don't know what else does. Google has grown maps using pretty shady tactics. Their data is only so good due to mining data from all the Android users and I bet Street View has a lot of governme…

> When Google first launched Maps it was free and they ran all of the other competition out of business. Now that all their competition are dead they want to charge for it. Were there any significant competing maps APIs for the web in 2005? There may have been (and you seem so certain I'm sure you could name them all :P), but it's crazy to claim that there aren't far more competitors in the last 5 years than there we…

Nokia maps was pretty decent. They had acquired Navteq, which had been in the business of mapping for decades. When Google maps just used to have a list of driving instructions, Nokia maps had full turn by turn voice navigation. Of course in this case Google maps didn't drive Nokia out of business, that was totally their own doing and maps was just one collateral damage.

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#209

Post by fireattack »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #191

This is pretty insane, I think it's about time that tech companies start to honour longer-term contracts and give more notice, even on their hobbyist service offerings. I mean, imagine a local grocery store who's rent would go up by 28x, 1 month notice. Or his procurement costs? That means literal bankruptcy or closing down his shop, virtually overnight. That's just not okay, not after years and years of service. You…

> honour longer-term contracts

Do they really have such contracts to begin with?

Re: Farewell, Google Maps

#210

Post by imron »

ucaetano wrote: post #203
komali2 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every conversation I've had with someone working at a startup in this city inevitably turns to the "so, are you worried Google will simply start offering your service for free?" I remember like 3 or 4 years ago having this conversation at a hackathon with a bunch of "Machine Learning" / "Sentiment Analysis" APIs present... right as google started offering both for free on their cloud platform.

Which most likely meant the startup was a feature or a product, not a company with a viable business model.

Being bought/aquihired by Google/others seems to be a business model several companies aim for.
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