Live data from Hacker News

Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

nytimes.com

201–210 of 211 posts

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exit makes sense as a human right. This is true across many levels of organization: you are free to quit your job, drop out of school, even emancipate yourself from your family after a certain age, and it's widely recognized that protecting the freedom to do these things improves collective outcomes. A corollary is that you should be allowed to join organizations that want you. But entry to any organization, regardle…

I'm not talking about private business. I'm not sure how that got into the conversation.

Private business was just one of several examples I gave to illustrate principles which hold across a wide range of scales of human organization.

It is straightforward to verify that they don't stop holding at nation-scale. A good place to start is Lee Kuan Yew, who's both one of the only leaders in history to preside over the entire transition from Third World to First World for millions of people, and an architect of what's currently the most open immigration policy among Chinese-majority states. Singapore is a multicultural place whose government is widely acknowledged to have one of the best technocratic track records in the world, and they spent considerable effort on trying to get immigration policy right, iterating through alternatives while deliberately taking a popularity hit; what were their conclusions?

Or what are the odds, under your stated worldview, that two of the closest things to actual open borders existing in 2018 are (i) the Norwegian archipelago of Svalbard, which lets almost anyone stay as long as they can support themselves ...but ranges from 74 to 81 degrees N latitude, and (ii) the United Arab Emirates, which has more than five times as many expats as actual citizens, the largest number from India ...but ruthlessly maintains a two-tiered society, where even people who were born in the UAE and have lived there their entire lives are exceedingly unlikely to be granted citizenship unless they are Arab?

Contrary to claims that nothing like open borders has ever been tried, the existence of cases like this make it abundantly clear that this area of policy space has already been subject to substantial exploration. And every surviving result has an obvious and unusual force that does something similar to what traditional immigration controls accomplish in most countries, such as Svalbard's -40C winters. This is, to put it mildly, not a likely result if traditional immigration controls no longer have a useful function.

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#202
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>America is not where opportunity is these days Yes, but the living standards in the United States are far higher. Sure you may never become a billionaire here like you can in China, but you can breathe the air and the traffic isn't that bad. The schools are better, the houses are bigger. China may get there, but I know where I'd rather be over the next 20-30 years. And they can always move back.

I'd be wary of thinking that it'll take that long. Live in Shenzhen and it is crazy the amount of progress here every year. Public transportation is way better than most American cities and housing is more expensive than most American cities. Apartments here regularly go for a couple million USD, the ads are plastered on the windows of every real estate agency on every street corner. The air here is quite breathable…

By choosing to live in China, you take on the opportunity cost of a shortened lifespan, likely a decade or so give or take. As long as you can accept that, then China is perfectly fine place to live.

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think Verilog is bad, you should see the languages used by heart surgeons, civil engineers and rocket scientists. The language of human biology is ridiculously verbose without even a hint of polymorphism. ;-) My point is that it's a little silly to evaluate hardware engineering through the lense of software engineering. In hardware engineering the part that looks like "software" (what a HW engineer may refer t…

I am not claiming in any way that the problem we face in HW design are the same as the SW folks do. I most certainly agree that RTL is but a small chunk of the overall effort of designing a chip. But I am afraid my point that this chunk is in a terrible place still stands. You have also entirely ignored my second point :)

Your second point was that HW engineers haven’t learned about sharing—as evidenced by the fact that they use a different term for it than SW does.

Again this is evaluating HW through a SW prism. Where’s github for bridge designers? rocket scientists? brain surgeons?

HW engineers share info in pretty much the same way that every other industry in the world does (except SW). The concepts are made available through patents, conferences, journals, and press releases. More detailed info is often made available through purchaseable IP.

Maybe it could be better, but there are good reasons that HW IP can’t be shared as easily as SW source code.

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something hilariously ironic about that, given the next couple of decades.

Given what?

The Cold War and how nukes turned out to be a much greater superweapon than anything the Germans built.

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sensibilities of 1930s Germany? Or maybe the sensibilities of early 20th century Europe, which was friendlier towards socialist, pro-labor policies than both modern India and China (people tend to forget that the SPD existed before Hitler). I know it's a hot-button issue, but I'm not anti-immigration and you're preaching at the wrong person. I will strongly disagree with your somewhat extreme belief that sensib…

> the sensibilities of early 20th century Europe These are the sensibilities that led to the two worst wars in world history, that gave birth to both Nazism (and other fascists) and Bolshevik totalitarian Communism, that produced millions of people (in Germany, Russia, Eastern European countries, France, and more) who participated in or stood by while tens of millions were murdered in German-controlled territory and…

I can't believe what I've read in this sub-thread. Thanks for sticking up for liberty and opportunity, as that is what the USA what founded upon.

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the sensibilities of early 20th century Europe These are the sensibilities that led to the two worst wars in world history, that gave birth to both Nazism (and other fascists) and Bolshevik totalitarian Communism, that produced millions of people (in Germany, Russia, Eastern European countries, France, and more) who participated in or stood by while tens of millions were murdered in German-controlled territory and…

I can't believe what I've read in this sub-thread. Thanks for sticking up for liberty and opportunity, as that is what the USA what founded upon.

Thanks.

> I can't believe what I've read in this sub-thread.

Human naturally follow the norms around them. It's how they choose their clothes, their music, their phones, and unfortunately, their politics. If they see other people saying these things, they will think it's acceptable; if they see lots of other people saying them, they will think it's the norm and join in.

> Thanks for sticking up for liberty and opportunity

First, I want to make clear that I'm nothing special. Second, I'm going to be an a-hole for a moment and quote a line from a song I heard from a frustrated advocate:

It's nice that you listen; it would be nicer if you joined in.

It's critical that everyone speak up. Imagine that nobody responded in this thread; think of the impression that would leave for readers - these prejudices are an unchallenged, widespread belief. Look at what it means for just one person to speak up. Now imagine two, or three. It's like bullying; one person speaking up can change things. Two do even more, and provide even more inspiration to the third and fourth and fifth people. It takes some nerve and courage for me, but never let these things pass; speak up; in social situations it can be tricky, but find polite ways to speak up. I have the privilege of safety; I'm not going to let some social pressure and natural human herd mentality stop me while people are suffering; people have suffered far more for liberty than that! People worry that there's nothing they can do, but in fact every single voice counts.

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#207
Boo hoo, poor Micron. Seems there are some hidden costs to exporting all manufacturing to China. This has happened over and over (see because China often requires American companies "partner" with a Chinese company to setup shop in China:

https://www.chinalawblog.com/2011/04/fellowes_brought_to_its...

US companies like cheap foreign labor and manufacturing, but need to realize there could be a high long-term cost - one that could put them out of business. We Americans seem to have a hard time focusing on long-term results. If an action boosts short-term profits or the stock price, we do it.

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#208
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain downvotes?

My experience with hacker news is that comments with China mentioned in a not so positive way will result in a flood of initial downvotes. As to the the why, I haven't a clue

My observation is that on certain topics, HN votes and comments become largely based on ideological stances rather than objective reality.

Take this thread for example: "the culture that creates new tech is something that china can't steal and it can't replicate it without giving up authoritarian rule"

This truism that China "can't innovate" because they live under an authoritarian government is very commonly believed on HN, but it's nothing more than an opinion. However, if you were to suggest to these same people that China is a poor source for sourcing immigrants, because , the logical parts of their brains would fire into action and point out how "wrong" that statement is, for obvious reasons.

A lot of people, including people on HN, passionately believe things that are absolutely contradictory, and they vote accordingly.

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the innovation never comes from the chip companies, it comes from companies that are building the products. I agree with you. Eng has really got to stop thinking they are the source of ideas, most good ideas come from customers that have needs that can't be currently met. Eng balances design constraints, as companies grow, hierarchies get stronger and creativity drops. Maximum innovation comes from small compan…

I think you are correct as well, its a matter of timing. Eventually there will be the equivalent of an FPGA that instead of having "LUT"s or "CLB"s they will have a bunch of useful bits of tech and an internal wiring bus that will be programmed by setting switches or blowing fuses. Then the variation will be how many pins on the package which will determine how many of these things you can bring out to pins. I did a…

This would have been a godsend for managing inventory.

In a somewhat related idea, is that of unioning the footprint of alternate parts in a PCB design so that either part could be used. I have never used any high in EDA software, but if you had end to end design, schematic, pcb layout and parts databases with high level machine-readable symbolic pin descriptions, these could be inferred automatically (unioned footprints).

Using your idea, I wonder if you could automatically have "hot standby" components in the same package?

Re: Inside a Heist of American Chip Designs, as China Bids for Tech Power

#210
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, in retrospect, outhouses are a better technology and plumbing is solving a problem we never had. Removing waste that can be easily recycled is wasteful.

Look up cholera.

Thanks for the tip, I will.
Post reply on HN