‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#201

Post by manfredo » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:53 PM UTC

hiccuphippo wrote: post #153

ericdykstra wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tens of thousands of games you could be playing, and only a fraction of single-player games have anything like this. If you don't like the small fraction that do, choose other games. I can't even think of any single-player game off the top of my head that I can't pause or save and quit progress at any time.

I think the only ones like that are the Dark Souls series. But I wonder if they'll add pause to the Switch version since it's a mobile version. Every game in the 3DS pauses when the player closes the lid. It should be the same with the Switch.

In dark souls you can quit any time you want save for when you're being invaded. And you can get rid of invasions by playing offline, or leaving yourself in undead (or unkindled) form.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#202

Post by jetti » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #109

This is made worse in my mind for games that are essentially single-player yet have some sort of online element that means you cant just hit pause or save & exit whenever you want. You have to keep on going for longer than you want until it is "safe" for you to stop. In the old days you could just exit out to the pause menu or save so you could go to the toilet or answer the phone or talk to your family and your in-g…

This isn't a new thing though. When the SNES Classic came out I picked one up because it had Secret of Mana on it. I completely forgot about not being able to just turn off the game when I want to stop since the only way you can save is by staying at an inn. I honestly haven't played a single player game that came out in the past 5 years (other than Secret of Mana remake) that would prohibit me from stopping whenever I want.

My big issue is multiplayer games (namely FIFA and Rocket League). If I just stop mid-game I lose rank, which means I may be stuck in a match longer than I would like to be.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#203

Post by feocco » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

fastbeef wrote: post #171

feocco wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You jump to regulation as the only thing to solve this? You could just not play those games. There's literally thousands upon thousands of alternatives that don't do this.

It’s an addiction. Unless the business self-regulates it’s a prime target for regulation. See also - tobacco, alcohol, drugs.

By this logic, we better start regulating sports and exercise too! After all, it's an addiction!!! * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction

I would equate trying to regulate against "sustained gameplay" to trying to regulate/force timeouts in all basketball games, tennis games, etc. It's absurd.

I think vice laws aim to accomplish good but needlessly limit freedom. More importantly, I think comparing gaming to addictive substances seems very naive.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#204

Post by inter632 » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

piva00 wrote: post #148

vectorEQ wrote: post #142

Increasing priority given to gaming to the extent that gaming takes precedence over other life interests and daily activities So, we all have a code and/or computer disorder. gg guys, lets get on dem zombie pillz ... 'gaming addiction' would be better term. and then even ,the problem is being addicted, not gaming.. people get addicted to all kinds of shit. having a interest in something more than other things is norm…

It's vague because it's an individual case-by-case assessment, it's not something easy to simplify to a checklist, it's a spectrum. Yes, if the increasing priority begins to affect other aspects of your life negatively it's a disorder, like any other addiction, don't get defensive because you can relate to the description of the symptom.

> Yes, if the increasing priority begins to affect other aspects of your life negatively it's a disorder, like any other addiction

Loads of people that have a passion for something, whether it be music, painting, coding, cooking, etc.. are experiencing a negative impact on their lives in some way. This seems very obvious to me. I play guitar and for many years I've practiced more than 10 hours a day. This had a very negative impact on my income to the point I had to stop to avoid becoming homeless. Is my passion a disorder because I don't make enough money with it? Are all successful musicians suffering a passion disorder? Should they quit making great music for the world and work for McDonalds living a depressed, and above all pointless life?

Some years later I started coding and a new passion arose. For years, and still today I code often more than 10 hours a day. Only now it positively impacts my income. Do I have a disorder? Do I need to stop and get treatment for being a passionate coder? I honestly think I'm quite lucky to have a passion for something that renders income.

I've played World of Warcraft for years, sometimes a real lot too. I have great memories of great times with my online friends. It is not something I will regret when my life comes to an end. I cannot play as much as I want because it will negatively impact my income. Should I regret now because I possibly have a 'gaming disorder', should I feel bad about the good times I had? Should I prevent others from having the time of their life? Should we not better ban eSports completely because too much gaming is bad? All pro players back to poverty, doing a stupid depressing job, but totally enjoying their 'disorder free' life?

Oh, and btw, I love coffee :)

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#205

Post by shiburizu » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

I'd say the following points need to be made about "gaming" because the perception does not reflect reality when you play a videogame:

- the classical "neurotic player who doesn't like distractions and spends hours on VoIP getting angry at the game" is the reflection of a lot of the people who get into real-time multiplayer in MMORPGs or now games like Fortnite. This isn't quite how it stands for a lot of games, genuine one-and-done experiences like God of War or going back a bit to the Wii didn't have this continuous "one more" feedback or ridiculous length of content (3 hours a night raiding is tiresome and stressing for some people)

- The fighting game community has the oddity of gathering in large tournaments, building community on them and treating their games with immense discipline in learning to the point where others complain the barrier of entry to being "good" is too high. More than any other genre, fighters offer real-life experiences. E-sports is picking up on this*.

- Something to consider when determining the "why" of prolonged play is also the community or social aspect of the game. I play a lot of videogames, I admit, and one of the things that makes me commit a lot of hours into a game is when I can talk about it, talk to people in it, build a common interest and execute it. I live in a country where I speak my second language more than my first and hopping online to play in English is definitely some strong escapism. This is my experience, but so many people get online these days for the strong community tools (Discord, subreddits). It's primarily this aspect that makes me question any attempt to compare it to gambling/watching sports/binge watching movies or what have you. Gaming is built on a huge internet infrastructure because social features build long-time users.

I totally appreciate the definition of gaming disorder being sacrificing other healthy parts of life to continue feeding your need to play videogames but maybe this made sense if everyone was still playing the Super Nintendo (and even then we mocked it) but the world, and maybe it's just because enough huge corporations threw enough money at marketing to make it happen, has managed to genuinely change real-life because of videogames. This is far too dismissive.

Other posters mention this and I'd probably say that they refused to consult people in the game development industry/competitive gaming organizations/prominent players because they'd like to poison the well by assuming they'd never admit they have a problem (Although I suppose that might have to do with EA and the like refusing to have ethical debate instead of filtering us through an endless marketing machine, taking notes from Hollywood)

Side note: First post on HN after long time browsing. Feel free to rip this apart.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#206

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

cabaalis wrote: post #155

sdiepend wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people that spend most of their available hours playing video games against other players to get the most kills, wins, ... but of course we call them esports athletes. For some people it's a job that generates income for others it's an addiction that impairs proper functioning.

This seems to be the point of the issue. What I heard on the radio was "do you lose your job, lose your wife/family, yet continue to play?" So what about the case where playing the game IS your job (which is a growing field?) What about the case where your wife/family is playing it with you? I'm not denying there might be some underlying destructive problem, but to my layman ears it sounds more like something someone…

It should be: "do you lose your job, lose your wife/family, BECAUSE YOU continue to play?"

IE, instead of helping your wife do important things, you play a game. Instead of going to bed so you can wake up for work, you play another round, and as a result of not getting enough sleep, your performance suffers. Addiction is basically a mis-prioritization of resources due to abuse of brain chemistry. Worse, it is typically a feedback loop: "She left me, now I am sad, but the game activates my dopamine response, providing some semblance of happiness"

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#207

Post by anyfoo » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

feocco wrote: post #203

fastbeef wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an addiction. Unless the business self-regulates it’s a prime target for regulation. See also - tobacco, alcohol, drugs.

By this logic, we better start regulating sports and exercise too! After all, it's an addiction!!! * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction I would equate trying to regulate against "sustained gameplay" to trying to regulate/force timeouts in all basketball games, tennis games, etc. It's absurd. I think vice laws aim to accomplish good but needlessly limit freedom. More importantly, I think comparing gaming…

If people were all reasonable all the time we wouldn’t need laws that prohibit them from driving under influence, stealing or plain murdering people.

If excessive sports and exercise were a problem on any large scale, I would advocate for regulation, too. My feeling however is that people rather tend to need incentives for exercising at all, so I’m not holding my breath on that one.

Freedom is not absolute if you are living as part of a society.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#208

Post by Jach » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #149

srrge wrote: post #146

As a 43 year old with two jobs and two kids, I found myself playing 500 hours of PlayerUnknown's Battleground in a few months. I had to uninstall the game. The addiction was very real.

Did you lose your job, destroy relationships with your family and friends? Or did this merely replace 500 hours that would have been spent watching TV, Netflix or other types of entertainment? The word addiction has a real meaning with some clinical ways for a trained person to diagnose somebody as having it. I think of addiction more like alcoholism. Sure video games are engineered these days to be huge time sinks b…

A useful statistic from 2016: US adults on average watch 5 hours of TV per day. Over 90 days (a few months) that's 450 hours.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#209

Post by beenBoutIT » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

DEADBEEFC0FFEE wrote: post #175

mattlondon wrote: post #109

This is made worse in my mind for games that are essentially single-player yet have some sort of online element that means you cant just hit pause or save & exit whenever you want. You have to keep on going for longer than you want until it is "safe" for you to stop. In the old days you could just exit out to the pause menu or save so you could go to the toilet or answer the phone or talk to your family and your in-g…

I can relate. I have taught myself to judge the impact of the StayAndPlay behavioral, and if necessary Alt-F4, walk away. Getting the shopping out of the car when my wife gets back is not more important, but not helping my wife is perceived as rude, and that is important. I'm trying to teach my boy this. Fortnite is absolutely gaming crack designed by psychologists. Powerful shit.

Why doesn't someone form an NGO or non-profit that assigns addicictveness ratings to games? These things can easily be quantified and labeled in a way that parents could easily understand.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#210

Post by beenBoutIT » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 8:06 PM UTC

pdpi wrote: post #81

ezoe wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are rich and no need to work, you hire the servants for your daily meals, hygiene, excretion, and/or remainder for take some sleep, playing game all day long for everyday isn't a disorder.

Not really. Personal, family, social functioning are all impaired still.

In the US the university experience allows a ridiculously care-free existence for many students, temporarily. A while back a friend in university was stuck with a deadbeat live-in GF that he couldn't get to leave. He ended up getting a copy of GTA Vice City and focusing on it until she voluntarily left without a fuss a week later. The GTA franchise in general aren't extremely addictive games, but the negative impact of chosing to spend free time with a game as apposed to a GF or family can cause real problems.