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China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

economist.com

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Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#201

Post by [deleted] »

obelix_ wrote: post #153
tc wrote: post #58

In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail. We've seen so many examples of fallen tyrannical states. But many ideas fail the first few times they're tried. China seems committed to making totalitarianism "work." It's hard to think of any more dangerous invention. Even nuclear weapons aren't as dangerous as a sustainable model for modern tyrannical government. This is an in…

Yup Trump, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, the 2008 meltdown, Zuckerberg turning the internet into his private sewage factory etc etc are all shining achievements of western wisdom and deep thought. The poor unimaginative illiterates of the Orient just don't get it. If only they understood what magic freedom can produce. Btw I suggest you reread your French Revolution history. The aristocracy was very much back in power wi…

[deleted]

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#202

Post by s2g »

kinsomo wrote: post #163
madengr wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems many Americans are willing to crap all over the 2nd Amendment, which is specifically in place to prevent totalitarian government.

> Seems many Americans are willing to crap all over the 2nd Amendment, which is specifically in place to prevent totalitarian government. Exactly. If America has learned anything from the past half century of foreign military adventures, it should be that a big modern Army can't easily defeat a motivated insurgency that has the support and sympathy in the local population. The 2nd Amendment may have a lot of costs, b…

Except the gun nuts facilitate totalitarianism because they don't give 2 shits about freedoms other than guns.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#203

Post by s2g »

amaccuish wrote: post #149
imbokodo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Marxist/Maoist idea of the Chinese would be that the government is just part of the superstructure on top of the base. The base being the current state of the forces of production in their continual self-evolution and reinvention, and the relations of production flowing from that. In other words, the economic system determines the political system. When hunter-gatherers became farmers, the political system change…

You're being downvoted because what you've said is an inconvenient truth for a lot of Americans it seems.

also because it's whataboutism containing references to things widely regarded as stains on American history.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#204

Post by s2g »

endisukaj wrote: post #172
iamthirsty wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the height of civil war the western classical liberal democracies looked weak and near collapse w hile Soviet looked too strong and awesome until one day it just collapsed. FYI the American Civil War ended in 1865 while the first Soviet was in 1905. And the first ~10 years after the ‘17 revolution were absolutely terrible in the Soviet Union. So your statement just isn’t correct.

They probably meant the Cold War.

Which doesn't make sense. At what point during the cold war was America close to collapse?

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#205

Post by s2g »

adventured wrote: post #124
CapacitorSet wrote: post #26

The fact that this is done under the guise of antiterrorism ought to ring some bells to American readers.

The situations don't compare well, even though the US too often uses terrorism as a guise to pursue global political goals. Domestically there are 3.3 million Muslims in the US. There are ~50 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, with most of the former detainees having been released without charge. Some of them were charged as enemy combatants and or terrorists. And Guantanamo is widely considered a black mark on the US repu…

No, the US just goes and bombs their homes instead.

and at home the US strips away freedoms from their own people with the justification of "national security".

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#206

Post by jhanschoo »

Laforet wrote: post #81
tc wrote: post #58

In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail. We've seen so many examples of fallen tyrannical states. But many ideas fail the first few times they're tried. China seems committed to making totalitarianism "work." It's hard to think of any more dangerous invention. Even nuclear weapons aren't as dangerous as a sustainable model for modern tyrannical government. This is an in…

I very much doubt it is sustainable. The cost of policing is quite substantial and the productivity lost is hard to replace which adds to the cost. What we are seeing today is essentially a low intensity conflict[0] not unlike what took place in white Rhodesia/Namibia, Northern Ireland during the troubles, etc. There is a economic reason why these conflicts could not last indefinitely, no matter what ideologies drive…

Your argument does not preclude selective policing; if for example policing on Han ethnicities remains sufficiently light, this can remain indefinitely. Slavery as well as oppression of minorities used to be seen as part and parcel of human society; one should not doubt so easily that oppressive regimes can be sustainable

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#207

Post by carapace »

purple-again wrote: post #10

This paywall is defeating all my usual tricks, can someone help me out? On an iPhone and the web link didn’t work, nor did going through twitter or Facebook. Thanks in advance for any help.

In Firefox you can turn off styling and see the content.

Menu: View -> page style -> no style

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#208

Post by ihsw2 »

kinsomo wrote: post #154
igivanov wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other news, the US, NATO and friends in this century alone destroyed Iraq, Libya, almost destroyed Syria and Yemen and did a few other nasty things that resulted in at least a million dead. Do you have a big enough item 5 for that?

> In other news, the US, NATO and friends in this century alone destroyed Iraq, Libya, almost destroyed Syria and Yemen and did a few other nasty things that resulted in at least a million dead. Do you have a big enough item 5 for that? Destroyed? You'll need to provide some pretty strong proof to convince me those countries aren't there anymore. Also the Syria and Yemen are civil wars. Don't know how you think it's…

Civil war implies it was a local phenomenon -- it was not. Foreign invaders occupied territory which has thankfully been restored to the democratically elected government.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#209

Post by ihsw2 »

emptybits wrote: post #186
scotty79 wrote: post #116

What would be your advice to China about how should they treat Uighurs?

Treatment identical to Han Chinese would be a great start.

They do get treatment identical -- any Han committing the same crimes would be exposed to the full force of the law.
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