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GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

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Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#201

Post by carterehsmith »

jake_the_third wrote: post #115
carterehsmith wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> existential threat to my company There is like a bajillion people out there running Oracle Java, MySql, Virtualbox and so on. All of them Oracle products, and with permissive licenses. Where is this "existential treat" thing coming from?

>There is like a bajillion people out there running Oracle Java, MySql, Virtualbox and so on. All of them Oracle products, and with permissive licenses. Where is this "existential treat" thing coming from? Oracle. (see, I can be sarcastic too) Ignoring the fact that most of those users were likely acquired back when those products were still known as Sun Java, Sun MySql, and Sun Virtualbox, those "bajillion" people a…

"The moment one of those people becomes large enough, Oracle's lawyers will come knocking."

Can we see an example of big Java user being called by Oracle's lawyers? Excluding Google, they created their own Java with no regards to license, so yeah they got sued. So... did anyone that just downloaded Java and used it, got sued? I do not see it. Nor do I see what they could possibly be sued for.

Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#202

Post by shthed »

So to contribute to this you have to sign the Oracle Contributors Agreement: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/community/oca-486395.html

"The OCA gives Oracle and the contributor joint copyright interests in thre code."

What does 'thre' mean? ;P

They want it physically printed and signed.. sigh, I haven't printed anything in years.

Is this normal to require a scanned signature for CLAs? I noticed Apache CLA is the same (they want scanned paper signature), but all others I've seen are an online form.

Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#203

Post by profalseidol »

carterehsmith wrote: post #201
jake_the_third wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is like a bajillion people out there running Oracle Java, MySql, Virtualbox and so on. All of them Oracle products, and with permissive licenses. Where is this "existential treat" thing coming from? Oracle. (see, I can be sarcastic too) Ignoring the fact that most of those users were likely acquired back when those products were still known as Sun Java, Sun MySql, and Sun Virtualbox, those "bajillion" people a…

"The moment one of those people becomes large enough, Oracle's lawyers will come knocking." Can we see an example of big Java user being called by Oracle's lawyers? Excluding Google, they created their own Java with no regards to license, so yeah they got sued. So... did anyone that just downloaded Java and used it, got sued? I do not see it. Nor do I see what they could possibly be sued for.

How about this? https://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-its-finally-time-to...

Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#204

Post by psandersen »

grashalm wrote: post #175
psandersen wrote: post #167

This looks really interesting. Can anyone comment on how mature the R and python support is? I'm coming at this from an ML/data science background, so anything that speeds up the above while maintaining broad library support would be a great help.

- FastR is around for several years. Language support is pretty much done. Its mostly about getting to run CRAN packages that use native extensions. - Graal.python is pretty new and its really early days. So even basic language things might break right now. But we are investing a lot of resources in Python support. You can check for compatibility of packages here (not yet for Python): http://graal-staging.us.oracle.c…

Thanks for that, link seems down unfortunately. I use data.table a lot but would happily switch if the dplyr family of packages work.

Would love to use this in Rstudio for exploratory analysis which would also need ggplot to work. Quite often have to cancel long running tasks when exploring a data set, so even if its a bit slower for interactive tasks but much faster for longer running tasks would be huge. E.g. typical interactive finished in 1 second instead of 50ms, but large loops that would take an hour finish in 10 minutes.

Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#206

Post by raiph »

bigleagueposter wrote: post #199
raiph wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "One VM to rule them all" reminds me of Parrot VM (for Perl 6). Looks like development slowed down a year or two ago. The concept lives on in the form of two "new" Perl 6 projects, namely MoarVM (started in 2012; a multi language VM) and NQP (started around 2008; a virtual VM and multi language compiler toolkit). https://moarvm.org https://github.com/perl6/nqp These can appropriately be compared with Graal and Truf…

MoarVM/NQP compares very badly with Graal and Truffle. MoarVM is a ton slower and less flexible.

Thanks for replying.

I think MoarVM/NQP are strikingly similar in their approach based on what I've learned so far about Graal/Truffle (which isn't much; perhaps a few hours of exploration; eg reading/watching the One VM to Rule Them All, One VM to Bind Them paper/video). [1]

Given the large number of Oracle employees working on Graal/Truffle (40 in 2016 according to the video) it doesn't surprise me that it's currently a lot faster.

Did you use Graal/Truffle friendly benchmarks (just as was done in the video)? Have you tried MoarVM friendly benchmarks to see where MoarVM shines? In particular, have you accounted for the new JIT that recently landed after 3 years of non-master branch development? [2]

Would you please elaborate a little on how MoarVM is insufficiently flexible?

TIA for any reply.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJY96_6Y3a4

[2] https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2016/12/09/a-preview-of-th...

Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#207

Post by jake_the_third »

carterehsmith wrote: post #201
jake_the_third wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is like a bajillion people out there running Oracle Java, MySql, Virtualbox and so on. All of them Oracle products, and with permissive licenses. Where is this "existential treat" thing coming from? Oracle. (see, I can be sarcastic too) Ignoring the fact that most of those users were likely acquired back when those products were still known as Sun Java, Sun MySql, and Sun Virtualbox, those "bajillion" people a…

"The moment one of those people becomes large enough, Oracle's lawyers will come knocking." Can we see an example of big Java user being called by Oracle's lawyers? Excluding Google, they created their own Java with no regards to license, so yeah they got sued. So... did anyone that just downloaded Java and used it, got sued? I do not see it. Nor do I see what they could possibly be sued for.

> Google, they created their own Java with no regards to license, so yeah they got sued.

You don't need a license to build a clone.. well, you didn't need one until recently thanks to Oracle.

While not exactly the same thing, I'm still glad that IBM didn't pursue IBM-compatibles using oracle's absurd logic (or ford and other car manufactures for that matter). I like competition.

> did anyone that just downloaded Java and used it, got sued? Perhaps not sued, just threatened into paying. See sibling posts for your anecdotes.

Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#208

Post by rockostrich »

ruffrey wrote: post #94

It sounds amazing. But Oracle's legal reputation means I can never safely choose their tech stack, especially not something open source and free. One of a million examples, this happens on the front page of HN at the same time: https://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/8d0bg2/oracle_o...

Oracle can't sue you for using Java and OpenJDK.

Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#209

Post by [deleted] »

carterehsmith wrote: post #109
jake_the_third wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the first thought that crossed my mind. If I have a choice between running our stack 50 times slower (and thereby 50 times the cost) or running anything Oracle, I know which choice is cheaper and doesn't come with an existential threat to my company. Only governments and big corp are rich and reckless enough to take on this kind of risk willingly.

>> existential threat to my company There is like a bajillion people out there running Oracle Java, MySql, Virtualbox and so on. All of them Oracle products, and with permissive licenses. Where is this "existential treat" thing coming from?

[deleted]

Re: GraalVM: Run Programs Faster Anywhere

#210

Post by ericfrederich »

grashalm wrote: post #16

Graal dev here. If you want to checkout all the sources/licenses of GraalVM CE. They are here: Graal: https://github.com/oracle/graal (GPLv2 with CPE) JavaScript with Node Integration: https://github.com/graalvm/graaljs (UPL - BSD license) Ruby: https://github.com/oracle/truffleruby (EPL, GPLv2, LGPL) R: https://github.com/oracle/fastr (GPLv2) Python: https://github.com/graalvm/graalpython (UPL - BSD license) LLVM/Su…

Why is this yet another implementation of Python? If C is supported why not use CPython itself?
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