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Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#201

Post by cma »

hunter23 wrote: post #63

This is how I would deal with it if I was a regulator: * Revoke Uber's license to operate - While they might not be found at fault, they have shown gross negligence by having an operator that doesn't observe the road, computer vision that can't sense a pedestrian crossing several lanes even when their LIDAR manufacturer says they could, and an algorithm which encouraged the car to speed 3 mph over the limit when it w…

> Require that operators test X miles of specific scenarios (city driving, highway, etc.) each month and audit their # of disengagements in each of these scenarios.

They need to go beyond periodic checks. Simply have constant video telepresence any time they are operating. Another operator monitors them to ensure they are attentive.

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#202

Post by jopsen »

hunter23 wrote: post #63

This is how I would deal with it if I was a regulator: * Revoke Uber's license to operate - While they might not be found at fault, they have shown gross negligence by having an operator that doesn't observe the road, computer vision that can't sense a pedestrian crossing several lanes even when their LIDAR manufacturer says they could, and an algorithm which encouraged the car to speed 3 mph over the limit when it w…

Regulate that testing on public road must be done by a third-party who is certified. It's not perfect but would reduce perverse financial incentives...

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#203

Post by dlp211 »

imh wrote: post #147
hunter23 wrote: post #63

This is how I would deal with it if I was a regulator: * Revoke Uber's license to operate - While they might not be found at fault, they have shown gross negligence by having an operator that doesn't observe the road, computer vision that can't sense a pedestrian crossing several lanes even when their LIDAR manufacturer says they could, and an algorithm which encouraged the car to speed 3 mph over the limit when it w…

But regulations cost jobs! Uber could just move to another state! >The Phoenix area was added a year ago, and quickly became the company’s main testing ground, with 400 employees and more than 150 autonomous cars driving local roads because of "favorable regulatory environment, favorable weather conditions,” according to a company document. The sorts of regulations you're suggesting cost California the privilege of h…

And no one in California is dead because of that.

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#204

Post by user5994461 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #190
Erlangolem wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, medical research would be so much faster and easier and cheaper if we could just test new drugs and devices and procedures on humans. We don’t. We shouldn’t. Half of all humans who have ever lived, died from mosquito-borne illnes, about 5,000,000,000 human lives. People who argue that the relatively paltry number of people killed by automobiles justifies a little “sacrifice” to prevent it in the future, nev…

> Half of all humans who have ever lived, died from mosquito-borne illnes[s], about 5,000,000,000 human lives. Your math doesn't work. The current population of the world is between 7 and 8 billion. If half of all humans who have ever lived were 5 billion, the total number of people who have ever lived would be 10 billion, of which at least 7 billion are still alive . That leaves less than 5 billion who could possibl…

“Modern” Homo sapiens (that is, people who were roughly like we are now) first walked the Earth about 50,000 years ago. Since then, more than 108 billion members of our species have ever been born, according to estimates by Population Reference Bureau (PRB).

Source: https://www.prb.org/howmanypeoplehaveeverlivedonearth/

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#205

Post by JetSpiegel »

baking wrote: post #82
jameslevy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their own in-housing hailing app This is very likely to be the plan.

There is no way you can justify the expense of development unless it is the plan. You can't make that much money selling self-driving as a very expensive (and finicky) option. Ride-sharing puts cars on the road, rolls them out regionally, and maximizes the utilization.

Uber as a service. Some company will build it and run the backend for most car companies, branded for each one.

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#206

Post by JetSpiegel »

jumpmanjr wrote: post #169
sgillen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are much cheaper and more reliable ways to mimic pedestrians right now than full on walking robots... But yeah some sort of random pedestrian/animal/debris in the road testing seems like it will be crucial to prevent this sort of accident from happening again.

The self driving car executive’s children. These guys are willing to risk my family to make a lot of money. We should make it mandatory that their kids play an extravagant game of frogger, instructed (when/where to cross) by college kids who get paid $$$ if one of the kids gets hit. Televise it. Let’s see how confident they really are in their technology.

A modest proposal.

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#207

Post by galdosdi »

hunter23 wrote: post #63

This is how I would deal with it if I was a regulator: * Revoke Uber's license to operate - While they might not be found at fault, they have shown gross negligence by having an operator that doesn't observe the road, computer vision that can't sense a pedestrian crossing several lanes even when their LIDAR manufacturer says they could, and an algorithm which encouraged the car to speed 3 mph over the limit when it w…

I'm about to get my hack license (taxicab operator) in NYC. I learned in taxi school yesterday that in NY, any fatality or serious injury involving a taxi (including ubers etc) triggers an instant suspension of the driver's hack license until an investigation is complete (and if the investigation finds the driver was at fault, the suspension becomes a permanent revocation)

I don't see why an experimental self driving taxi should be treated more leniently than that.

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#208

Post by underwater »

hunter23 wrote: post #63

This is how I would deal with it if I was a regulator: * Revoke Uber's license to operate - While they might not be found at fault, they have shown gross negligence by having an operator that doesn't observe the road, computer vision that can't sense a pedestrian crossing several lanes even when their LIDAR manufacturer says they could, and an algorithm which encouraged the car to speed 3 mph over the limit when it w…

> audit their # of disengagements in each of these scenarios.

This would incentivise the companies (and force the drivers) to not disengage in borderline dangerous situations.

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#209

Post by galdosdi »

Eridrus wrote: post #39
sixseven wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are struggling to meet 13 miles per "intervention", how was the "safety driver" not paying full attention on the road at night? That's baffling.

They were averaging I think 200 miles per safety critical intervention. So, every mile the driver would have to take over to do something like go around a truck blocking the lane or construction or whatever, but the car would come to a stop safely.

Whoa. The car couldn't even pass a stopped vehicle on its own? That's terrifying. It's glorified cruise control.

I think uber is basically pretending to develop a self driving car.

Re: Uber’s Self-Driving Cars Were Struggling Before Arizona Crash

#210

Post by galdosdi »

kalleboo wrote: post #172
danso wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As of March, Uber was struggling to meet its target of 13 miles per “intervention” in Arizona To be fair, Uber is not necessarily acting badly -- especially since AZ doesn't appear to care either way -- having the safety driver is ostensibly supposed to make the AV at least as safe as if it were a regular human-driven car. I hope during the investigation we find out whether Uber made it clear to its human drivers t…

The article says that Uber instructed their drivers to hover their hands over the wheel in order to be able to take over at a moments notice. But they also supplied an iPad app to report issues, that some safety drivers used while in motion (others were cited as using it at red lights)

The hovering hand thing weirded me the hell out. You'd get terrible RSI if you actually did that all day. Try it.
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