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Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

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Re: Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

#201

Post by BukhariH »

kuschku wrote: post #117
askvictor wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the alternative approach to the cookie law? A yes/no consent page before your site, and if you click no, the user doesn't get to access it? Because that's basically the same thing, but even more annoying.

Websites in the Netherlands (and German public broadcasters) already follow the original ideal: Before accessing the website, you get a choice between yes and no. If you select no, the site will not do any tracking, no analytics — some sites disable ads in that case entirely. You still get to access the site. If you select yes, you getthe tracking.

Honestly asking... Does anyone ever click yes?

Re: Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

#202

Post by pishpash »

allthenews wrote: post #25

You know, I am a pretty staunch supporter of minimalistic restrictions on corporate behavior, putting faith instead in markets. But this seems like the kind of problem I'd consider looking to solve through legislation. Although I should say, not without hesitation, given the extreme discrepancy between rates of change in tech and law. I would hate to see seemingly well meaning legislation passed for something like th…

Minimalistic restrictions work if you also help to ensure a working marketplace with healthy and robust competition. When few players dominate the marketplace, even if they are not technically "monopolies," the market is dysfunctional.

Re: Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

#203

Post by seanmcdirmid »

anigbrowl wrote: post #89
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument they’ve made is that they are targeting FB and not their competitors. If true, it has many possible abusive implications, one of the common ones being protectionism. It might not be that, but it is a huge red flag that it could be that.

It's easy to level accusations and then back off justifying by saying it's just a possibility.

I did not edit my original comments where I clearly said “leads to”. If you think that meant an accusation, then that’s your right of course, but it isn’t correct to then say I was using similar language to back out of it.

Re: Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

#206

Post by CaptainZapp »

tombrossman wrote: post #161
CaptainZapp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How to tell Facebook that I don't want to be tracked? By not having a fucking Facebook account! it seems to me that's actually the crux of that court decision.

A typical scenario: Your friends and acquaintances have your contact info stored on their mobile phones. Your phone number, an email address or two, maybe a photo and a birth-date so they don't forget to wish you happy birthday. They install Facebook/WhatsApp/Twitter, etc, all of which upload your personal data from the phones to their own servers without your knowledge or consent. It's more complicated than deciding…

Yes, I'm aware of this (and thankfully have never been stupid enough to entrust my address book to any such service), but what I'm really looking forward to is how Facebook and their ilk will be dealing with shadow profiles in relation with the GDPR.

Since I'm not a member of their service there's no valid reason for them to maintain personally identifiable data about me. Let alone that they never asked for my permission and that I never, ever consented to their gobling up of my data and that of other non-members.

At least according to my understanding this is a very clear violation of the GDPR, which - if the courts agree - could cost them dearly.

I wonder how Facebook intends to deal with that. If I interprete the directive correctly they are obliged to delete all such data since storing, mainting and proecssing it clearly violates the law.

Interesting times...

Re: Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

#207

Post by fwdpropaganda »

allthenews wrote: post #25

You know, I am a pretty staunch supporter of minimalistic restrictions on corporate behavior, putting faith instead in markets. But this seems like the kind of problem I'd consider looking to solve through legislation. Although I should say, not without hesitation, given the extreme discrepancy between rates of change in tech and law. I would hate to see seemingly well meaning legislation passed for something like th…

> You know, I am a pretty staunch supporter of minimalistic restrictions on corporate behavior, putting faith instead in markets.

Why don't you put your faith in data? If you're a engineer that's presumably what you're already doing in every other respect of your life. It doesn't seem to me that starting out already having decided on what the best approach is will lead to the best decisions.

Re: Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

#208

Post by deadbunny »

TomMarius wrote: post #125
anigbrowl wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe hews to somewhat different legal and administrative philosophies from the US, and I don't think the EU is any more corrupt than the US, arguably less so. This subject is discussed very well in a favorite little book, Adversarial Legalism by Robert Kagan.

I don't know what you mean by EU, but most of EU countries except for the west are more corrupt than the US. EDIT: Downvotes? I'm stating facts. How can you downvote facts?

"facts" with zero sources and an argument which could easily be dismissed/interpreted as stereotypical US centric argument.

Re: Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

#209

Post by IncRnd »

EggsOnToast wrote: post #59
IncRnd wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference matters in this context because the counter argument would be "why is the law being enforced predominantly against a handful of American companies instead of the industry at large?" That's not a counter argument but dissatisfaction. Are you saying that EU companies also don't follow their laws?

>That's not a counter argument but dissatisfaction. You're correct but mainly because I wasn't paying attention and phrased it as a question. Written instead as a statement, it's a valid counter argument because it's criticizing the parent comment's ridicule of a different instance of criticism. > Are you saying that EU companies also don't follow their laws? I'm insinuating that if someone wanted to defend Facebook'…

> You're correct but mainly because I wasn't paying attention and phrased it as a question. Written instead as a statement, it's a valid counter argument because it's criticizing the parent comment's ridicule of a different instance of criticism.

I doubt a statement expressing dissatisfaction is a valid legal argument responding to a legal ruling. Clearly the term argument in this context is for a legal argument not a colloquial use of the term, since a legal appeal is what is being discussed.

When people get traffic tickets, the judge won't let them off for saying, "But, your honor, the police officer didn't pull over any of the other speeders around me."

Re: Facebook’s tracking of non-users ruled illegal again in Europe

#210

Post by simion314 »

fwdpropaganda wrote: post #205

I'm genuinely surprised that in this thread we're not seeing the usual idea that this is just the oppressive EU trying to exploit poor American companies. Is it because the article relates to evil Facebook and not Google?

So if a court in country X finds the fact that tracking non FB users is illegal the Americans should side with the criminal because X!=USA, Google and FB are the biggest companies that do this illegal things so it is so obvious that citizens and organization with sue this big companies and not some obscure forum in country X(if there is such small company that can even track users outside it's own website)

Also give me examples of EU companies that track users on most of the internet.

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