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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#201

Post by Dirlewanger »

emodendroket wrote: post #24
rubenbe wrote: post #6

I recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)

I've read that a dishwasher is less wasteful than hand-washing of dishes (perhaps this isn't true for people who are very, very scrupulous about their use of water while washing dishes, but that's not most of us).

Absolutely. A dishwasher in the average American household, unless they're having massive dinner parties every night, is wanton arrogance. They not only use more resources than handwashing, it also takes longer.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#202

Post by cornholio »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #187
londons_explore wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only theater if you measure by kilograms. If you instead care about "items" or "visual cleanness of the river that all the plastic gets blown into", it's a very different matter.

I'd put the prettiness factor down pretty far in environmental concerns. That is part of the 'theatre' side of the equation in fact?

By that metric, what is the environment and why is it important to protect it? On an abstract enough scale, we and our plastic are simply evolutionary products and the fact that we are wiping out species and cataclysmically heating the planet is just a geological event that might be called The Great Human Extinction by some distant inteligent race.

As George Carlin used to say, the planet is just fine. It's the people who are f*ed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#203

Post by monk_e_boy »

wastedhours wrote: post #150
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

Anecdata, but since it was introduced, I've gone from getting a new bag every day (lunch/fresh groceries), to using the same one for pretty much the last 6 months. It was a very noticeable shift to making me think about their use. Buying one because I've forgotten is a rare, and slight annoyance (the price doesn't put me off, it just changes the mental model).

Lots of my friends have said the same thing. I've always wondered why people didn't re-use bags before the charge...

Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care?

It's great that the 5p charge works, but do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#204

Post by lanaius »

mturmon wrote: post #119
oldcynic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's broadly where I'd go with plastic bottles - £1 deposit, rising to £5 and compel supermarkets and manufacturers to take the returns. I'm old enough to remember the 20p(?) deposit on glass bottles of fizzy pop. Also when supermarkets were selling milk in glass bottles - and provided crates in the same section for customers to return the empties. This used to be a solved problem.

This approach is used in California and other states and it generally works. The deposit is 5 cents and certain "healthy" drinks (juices, milk) are not charged. [If you live in CA, know all this, and are just arguing for a much higher fee - my apologies.] Most middle-class people don't take household bottles in for the 5c back -- they recycle them in bulk for free -- but bottles in public areas are scooped up by poor…

I didn't have the time to wait in line every few weeks to turn in my recyclables in LA so I put them all in a bag next to the dumpster for the complex. I didn't start doing this until after I noticed the dumpster divers were coming anyways.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#205

Post by kodablah »

jeffffff wrote: post #180
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

the non-reusable plastic bag ban in austin, tx was a pretty big failure. the problem is that a lot of the big stores (heb in particular) sell heavier "reusable" bags for 25 cents that no one actually reuses. these bags have a significantly larger environmental impact than the disposable bags if they are not actually reused as intended. http://kxan.com/2015/06/10/report-austin-bag-ban-had-uninten...

In the Metroplex the plastic bag law was repealed after bag manufacturers sued the city for unlawful taxes on containers. It didn't have majority citizen support anyways, was seen as a way to complicate purchasing on smaller retailers, and many were just paying the fee anyways. While many support the idea of reduced plastic bag consumption, they didn't like the government tax approach. I personally don't have a strong opinion.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#206

Post by ibdf »

troyvit wrote: post #196

By 2030 wow. Great. Flying cars and disposable utensils coming in the same year.

2030 seems far, but it's better than no deadline. I believe they give so many years to make this change, to allow manufactures to make adjustments and changes to their machinery without hurting jobs.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#207

Post by kodablah »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #28
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

Chicago started charging 7 cent a bag and that certainly made me think twice about my bag use.

Imagine if they threw you in jail for it. I bet you'd think even harder and we'd definitely get rid of plastic bags.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#208

Post by monk_e_boy »

jeffffff wrote: post #180
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

the non-reusable plastic bag ban in austin, tx was a pretty big failure. the problem is that a lot of the big stores (heb in particular) sell heavier "reusable" bags for 25 cents that no one actually reuses. these bags have a significantly larger environmental impact than the disposable bags if they are not actually reused as intended. http://kxan.com/2015/06/10/report-austin-bag-ban-had-uninten...

how do you feel about the government imposing these rules on commerce. In the UK we're quite used to this and don't mind. Americans often feel that government should keep out of capitalism.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#209

Post by monk_e_boy »

kodablah wrote: post #207
AlwaysRock wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago started charging 7 cent a bag and that certainly made me think twice about my bag use.

Imagine if they threw you in jail for it. I bet you'd think even harder and we'd definitely get rid of plastic bags.

Same idea for guns. Buy back guns for $10,000 each. Soon have guns under control and off the streets.

People would be breaking into each others houses to sell them.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#210

Post by hanspragt »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #203
wastedhours wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata, but since it was introduced, I've gone from getting a new bag every day (lunch/fresh groceries), to using the same one for pretty much the last 6 months. It was a very noticeable shift to making me think about their use. Buying one because I've forgotten is a rare, and slight annoyance (the price doesn't put me off, it just changes the mental model).

Lots of my friends have said the same thing. I've always wondered why people didn't re-use bags before the charge... Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care? It's great that the 5p charge works, but do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

Short-term consequences always win out over long-term ones.
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