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Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

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Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#201

Post by gorkemyurt »

reaperducer wrote: post #3

This is something that certain cities have understood for many years. Chicago, for example, mandates that all new development from a simple three-story building to a 100-story skyscraper has retail at its base to improve the walkability of its streets and make its business corridors vibrant. This also helps push down retail rents even in the CBD, allowing local upstart businesses a shot at reaching the masses. Chicag…

The better formula is 'no empty walls'. Vancouver does this. Retail doesn't fit in every single location when that's the case ground floor is replaced by street level townhouse style entrances to individual units..

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#202

Post by com2kid »

jimmaswell wrote: post #37
crispyambulance wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That concept has already been implemented. Urban planners who practice it call it "new urbanism". It has been a mixed bag, but is better than the "malls-connected-by-highways" approach of many suburban development s.

Too much density decreases the quality of life. Overcrowdedness, very long waiting times at every establishment or government office, increased ease of pickpockets etc. to "disappear into the crowd", higher prices. You already see all this in many existing cities; you want that, but worse? I'll take malls connected by highways over that any day. Malls are nice and cars are a better experience than transit/walking in…

Malls typically lack quality local retailers. Local artists renting out a store front to sell their works, local gyms, martial arts studios, dance studios, that small store stuffed to the brim with cute little decor items, clothing stores for local fashion designers, and of course small restaurants.

Malls have none of those. Maybe a couple local jewelers, and everything else is large nation wide (or regional) chains.

Density of construction drives down rents. Large parking lots are huge lost opportunity costs. They don't give much tax revenue, and they don't contribute to the economy, there is nothing on them.

When I lived in an urban core, I was able to get everything I needed within a 5 minute walk. That included an outdoor mall, integrated into the walkable city, that was a mix of local stores and nationwide retailers. In contrast, the malls I drive to have none of that.

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#203

Post by lazerpants »

gorkemyurt wrote: post #201
reaperducer wrote: post #3

This is something that certain cities have understood for many years. Chicago, for example, mandates that all new development from a simple three-story building to a 100-story skyscraper has retail at its base to improve the walkability of its streets and make its business corridors vibrant. This also helps push down retail rents even in the CBD, allowing local upstart businesses a shot at reaching the masses. Chicag…

The better formula is 'no empty walls'. Vancouver does this. Retail doesn't fit in every single location when that's the case ground floor is replaced by street level townhouse style entrances to individual units..

Exactly, NYC has a glut of unused ground floor retail space and a housing shortage, simultaneously.

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#204

Post by 33W »

criddell wrote: post #157
reaperducer wrote: post #3

This is something that certain cities have understood for many years. Chicago, for example, mandates that all new development from a simple three-story building to a 100-story skyscraper has retail at its base to improve the walkability of its streets and make its business corridors vibrant. This also helps push down retail rents even in the CBD, allowing local upstart businesses a shot at reaching the masses. Chicag…

A developer friend told me that one of his biggest problems are accounting related. I probably have this wrong, but I think he was saying that if he has commercial tenants, everything can be depreciated over 20 years. If the building is residential, then the depreciation schedule is 30 years. When you have a building that contains a mix of the two, it gets complicated.

That's an interesting point. I wonder if tax-incentivizing mixed use development by allowing a short depreciation period could create the same desired result as mandating it.

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#205

Post by matwood »

jimmaswell wrote: post #179
matwood wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cars are a better experience than transit/walking in every facet I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. There are plusses and minuses to both. IMO, the big plus with a car is freedom, but then there are many negatives like parking, traffic, and speed to destination. If I ever move again, it will be to a location where I do not have to own a car. I hate everything about driving, and realized it's a huge sourc…

Parking, traffic, and speed to destination depend on where you live and your specific situation, but for a lot of people, speed to destination is always faster in a car, including parking. My commute is only 5 minutes by car and it would take a lot longer on transit. Subjectively, I prefer being in my own space with personal temperature controls and music, and a bit of traffic would be worth it. Compared to transit,…

> depend on where you live and your specific situation

So it's not better in every facet. It's better for your exact current situation. Most people do not have a 5 minute drive to work [1].

On the whole, I think if we took the best car situation and the best city/public transportation situation (some EU city like London for example), the car situation does not scale and lags behind the car situation.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/22/the-a...

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#206

Post by rm999 »

reaperducer wrote: post #3

This is something that certain cities have understood for many years. Chicago, for example, mandates that all new development from a simple three-story building to a 100-story skyscraper has retail at its base to improve the walkability of its streets and make its business corridors vibrant. This also helps push down retail rents even in the CBD, allowing local upstart businesses a shot at reaching the masses. Chicag…

Weird - I visited Chicago a couple years ago from NYC and was shocked at how pedestrian-unfriendly central parts of Chicago seemed (e.g. River North). There were parking lots everywhere, with aggressive drivers pulling in and out. I walked through a parking lot to go to a liquor store and was almost run over. Sometimes crossing a large street felt like a race against the green light. Jaywalking signaled to drivers that they should speed up, which is the mark of a driver-run city IMO.

The whole experience contrasted heavily with the east coast cities like DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, Boston. Maybe it's changed in the last few years, though.

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#207

Post by emodendroket »

jimmywanger wrote: post #178
emodendroket wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, so all we have to do is accept totalitarian rule? Where do I sign?

Would you rather live in Singapore or El Salvador? Especially if you have a family that depends on you.

As if those were the only choices. I'd rather stay where I am than live in either place.

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#208

Post by bluGill »

zpallin wrote: post #189
CPLX wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York City is the archetypal example of this kind of policy.

Even better, look at Hong Kong. Almost every single high rise has a mall at the bottom with a dim sum restaurant.

Note that you said high rise. A 2 story building with half dedicated to retail has too much retail in general (in some specific situations it might make sense, but if every building did that there simply isn't enough need for retail space). However a 100 story building with only one floor retail needs more retail space to satisfy the residents' needs.

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#209

Post by so33 »

d--b wrote: post #126

It's always a tradeoff... - super dense cities like Tokyo or New York can feel suffocating. A lot of people can't bear it. The lack of green space, and the overcrowding of people and cars increases the stress levels by a lot. Yet, being able to walk around the city is excellent for exercising and mindfulness, it's easier to meet with people, etc. - super sparse cities (like LA or Brasilia) on the other end tend to is…

>super dense cities like Tokyo or New York can feel suffocating

Not all of Tokyo looks like Shibuya Crossing! Do a Google search for "Tokyo residential neighborhood". You'll find mostly two- or three-story buildings. The main difference? Streets are extremely narrow by North American standards and represent alleyways. This sort of development is what urbanists describe with the buzzword "human-scale".

Re: Walkable Streets Are More Economically Productive

#210

Post by [deleted] »

ecshafer wrote: post #186
cortesoft wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is some decision or planning that leads to this. New York is so dense because it is geographically constrained, and as the city grew it had no where to expand out to, so it had to become more dense to grow. Los Angeles, on the other hand, was created as smaller cities grew outward and connected to each other. They are both successful in growth for different reasons, but their density was determined b…

Los Angeles has extremely strict parking requirements, and green space requirements. People often have no choice but to build out due to expense. There was a fantastic write up on Reddit by an architect on the issue here https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/com...

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