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So You Want to Compete with Steam

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Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#201

Post by lmm »

talmand wrote: post #189
lmm wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First: you see this screenshot? https://askubuntu.com/q/814380 Aside from the actual package names, the bottom part is the same kind of error I got. I actually don't, imgur is blocked where I work. But I know the error you're talking about. > Yeah, I interpret that to mean I had broken packages. After updating. Not before. Yeah the error reporting is bad, which is where the whole unix philosophy of small cooperatin…

I'm really enjoying this thread where it seems the complainer is saying they clicked a button provided by the system that resulted in breaking the system and the defenders are saying the complainer not only clicked the button wrong but didn't understand how to click the button correctly. Therefore, the complainer should have realized they are too stupid to understand how to click such an advanced button correctly and…

Oh, something has gone wrong at multiple levels here, and the buck should stop with Ubuntu if nowhere else (since their whole value proposition is supposed to be an OS that's easy to install/administer). But the problem here isn't package management; removing package management would not make it better.

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#202

Post by sli »

krapp wrote: post #16

Really, Steam seems to be the closest thing Windows has to an application/package manager[0]. It's almost kind of a shame that it's more or less entirely for games and game development software - something like it with sourceforge/github integration or an API for general purpose Windows installers would be nice. [0]notwithstanding whatever Windows 10 might have, because I still refuse to touch that, but it's probably…

If we're counting third parties, what about chocolatey? It's not my favorite package manager around, but it does do the job.

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#203

Post by sli »

majewsky wrote: post #121
dataflow wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really, Steam seems to be the closest thing Windows has to an application/package manager I don't understand this obsession with package managers. You guys really have less trouble with package managers than Windows installers? It was literally just 2-3 days ago I was trying to update Ubuntu and I couldn't, because of some stupid error (I don't remember exactly) along the lines of "libgl1-mesa-glx depends libglapi-…

> You guys really have less trouble with package managers than Windows installers? Hell yeah. I remember when I had to set aside entire weekends to reinstall a Windows machine. These days, when I need to reinstall one of my Linux boxes, I just fire up the Arch installer, and instead of installing the "base" package group as the manual instructs you, I install my configuration package for that machine which pulls in a…

> I just fire up the Arch installer

When I switched to Linux full time, I basically replaced Ninite with a one line shell script and was done. It also removes any worry that Ninite might go sour in the future.

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#204

Post by earenndil »

larsiusprime wrote: post #63
kuschku wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't GOG already starting to compete with Steam? (Of course, from the DRM-free angle). They're an ever growing market, backed by a publisher with a strong lineup, just like Steam was in its early days.

(Author here) GOG is a great service; their main limitations is that many AAA publishers absolutely refuse to release without DRM, though this is sloooooowly eroding, somewhat. GOG can't go back on their DRM-free promise without a revolt from their audience, but it also limits what big-ticket games they can sign. I like GOG a lot, they've carved out a nice niche for themselves, but from every developer I've talked to…

> many AAA publishers absolutely refuse to release without DRM

Why, though? It doesn't even work. Denuvo sort of worked, had a GIANT performance hit due to running on a VM, and even it was cracked before long.

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#205

Post by qplex »

outworlder wrote: post #23
FussyZeus wrote: post #3

Mind you the USERS don't even want a lot of Steam's competition. The GOG downloader is...okay? Origin is almost universally hated and every time one of these big companies announces $NewNotSteam the collective community rolls their eyes and groans, dreading the new application that has to be installed, and kept running so it can update, to accomplish the exact same thing that Steam, GOG, Origin, and uPlay already acc…

True. The best thing Steam has ever done was allowing(but not requiring) importing of other games to it. We (as in myself and other users) will voluntarily move to Steam in many cases, just to avoid dealing with whatever download site the game had before, or to get the automatic updates. I've done that with KSP and Elite Dangerous (which has a non-shitty site). And then Steam added VR - a very good implementation at…

Contrarian anecdote.

I've had no issues with Origin.

It downloads/updates the games and launches them, and hasn't failed at that yet. I don't much care for any other feature.

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#206

Post by talmand »

Yizahi wrote: post #196
talmand wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really enjoying this thread where it seems the complainer is saying they clicked a button provided by the system that resulted in breaking the system and the defenders are saying the complainer not only clicked the button wrong but didn't understand how to click the button correctly. Therefore, the complainer should have realized they are too stupid to understand how to click such an advanced button correctly and…

In the separate thread they may later complain about Linux not making it to the desktops of regular users.

I've seen lots of contradictions like that from the community.

"Linux is for haxorz and normies should go away!"

"Why don't more people use Linux?"

But such is expected from a large community though.

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#207

Post by kasbah »

hellbanner wrote: post #65

We sell our game on itch http://QuantumPilot.me Developer chooses what cut to pay to itch, which is nice. DRM free, easy to setup -- 5 minutes compare to 5 hours with Steam. Itch supports indie game dev by letting community manage "Game Jams": http://itch.io/jams Their site + client is open source: https://github.com/itchio

The client seems to be open source but their site doesn't. https://github.com/itchio/itch.io is just an issue tracker.

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#208

Post by larsiusprime »

lmm wrote: post #176
jlebrech wrote: post #112

At some point itch was one of the 99%. Maybe taking on newgrounds or miniclip with a wasm based gaming platform is the niche?

> At some point itch was one of the 99%. It sounds like itch is more of a lifestyle business than something trying to compete with Steam. And maybe they got started with indies back when that was more of a "blue ocean" (Steam used to be quite anti-indie in the early days). > Maybe taking on newgrounds or miniclip with a wasm based gaming platform is the niche? Now that is a good idea.

Newgrounds is run at a loss, for the record.

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#209

Post by mehrdadn »

mmjaa wrote: post #194
mehrdadn wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Yeah, this is a great follow-up to what I've been saying. Right, Windows isn't perfect either. What it does have going for it, though, is that on Windows there are comparatively very few external shared libraries -- in fact, the only ones I can think of are in fact the C, C++, .NET, and SQL runtimes. So, as you confirmed, it means application updates rarely break your system globally. (OS updates can still wr…

I'm guessing you don't know what "DLL hell" was. >The part I find mind-boggling is that Linux users are obsessed with package mangers for the initial installations themselves, not merely updating. Yes, because it keeps the system functional and operating and - if you use it properly - package management is a hellaciously great way to build a system. > Do they really only ever want to install FOSS software blessed by…

> I'm guessing you don't know what "DLL hell" was.

I do. And like you said: "was". That's why I asked which version of Windows parent is talking abomut. Why are you bringing it up so many years later when you explicitly acknowledge it "was" rather than "is"?

> Don't blame the tool if you don't know how to use it properly

So many of you are baselessly claiming this yet none of you are telling me what I could have possibly done "improperly" to get into this mess. I told it to update everything. And there were no packages that had more updates... except these ones which wouldn't budge. If just telling my system to update and letting it do whatever it wants is "not using it properly" then -- to put it as nicely as I can put it -- there is a UI/UX problem. (Read: it would do a good job of explaining why a Linux distro isn't the main desktop OS, wouldn't it.)

Re: So You Want to Compete with Steam

#210

Post by dataflow »

lmm wrote: post #183
dataflow wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. Nothing was broken. The updates you had asked for were about to break something if you installed them. The error message was the package manager stopping you from breaking your system. Uhm... two things. First: you see this screenshot? https://askubuntu.com/q/814380 Aside from the actual package names, the bottom part is the same kind of error I got. See how it says "You have held __broken___ packages" ? See ho…

> First: you see this screenshot? https://askubuntu.com/q/814380 Aside from the actual package names, the bottom part is the same kind of error I got. I actually don't, imgur is blocked where I work. But I know the error you're talking about. > Yeah, I interpret that to mean I had broken packages. After updating. Not before. Yeah the error reporting is bad, which is where the whole unix philosophy of small cooperatin…

> More likely the user who asked it (3 questions, 0 answers) got bored and never "accepted".

Call me, uhm, skeptical. I wonder why he'd get bored, if not for receiving non-working answers. I wonder if it's at all akin to how I'm in the same situation and the answers don't work for me either. That strangely correlates with the lack of an accepted answer. Yeah, "not causation", I know. Doesn't change anything.

> You could still update all the individual programs manually like you would on windows. Which is what I thought you were advocating?

No you can't, which is my point. These programs depend on different versions or libgl/libmesa/whatever is causing the problem. So I can't update anything that needs a newer (or older?) version because it chokes when there are multiple versions needed. That's a non-problem on Windows, and if 10 years ago the story was different that means, well, nothing.

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