201–210 of 224 posts
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third world countries originally ment states not aligned with USA, Nazi Germany or USSR, during and after ww2. this actually included ireland.
Yeah, but that's not the meaning currently used since the end of the cold war.
A book by Jeffrey Sachs, The End of Poverty, argues in favor of this approach where, wealthy individuals or nations help write off debt of poorer countries. The cost of servicing this debt is often crushing enough that no meaningful uplifit is possible from their current poverty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty
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This was a loan, possibly from the taxpayers, it wasn't charity. Governments don't just "lose track" of $76 million owed to them. Or at least, they shouldn't. Presumably, Nigeria agreed to the terms, so I don't see the issue.
I'm sure Nigeria did agree to the terms, but if I were a citizen of Japan I would be embarrassed that the money was not just gifted as part of a foreign aid program.
Making it a loan will also allow for larger sums to be spent.
Japan's ODA has been mainly done in Asia, and to me it looks like its philosophy is producing results.
A book by Jeffrey Sachs, The End of Poverty, argues in favor of this approach where, wealthy individuals or nations help write off debt of poorer countries. The cost of servicing this debt is often crushing enough that no meaningful uplifit is possible from their current poverty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty
For me the choice was simple and I enjoyed learning about Jeffrey Sachs' ideas to end poverty. Somehow though, every other student read the Coca-Cola CEO's book. To this day, I am puzzled why people prefer reading about a guy that helps sell sugar water instead of an economist's solution to world poverty.
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> Does anyone really think Bill Gates is a superior moral person with no ulterior motive at all? And if you think so, can you provide proof, or just assumption? > History almost universally shows that the rich and powerful manipulate both the people and their image for their own good, not for the well being of the peasants. I never have any heroes, because they can all fall from grace. In Bills case I'm sure he did s…
>What we can do is judge him from his actions. Actions are proof of what he's doing. It's very easy to give something you have an abundance of. I don't see how his good is better than other rich peoples, just because we know about it? Because it's front page news? That makes it "good"? I am not willing to jump to the conclusion his motives are altruistic for these reasons alone. Do you know if he is getting a kick ba…
Tell that to the Kochs/Mercers/etc of the world.
I doubt that Gates puts much effort into publicizing their current work. It's front page news because they're doing it.
> Do you know if he is getting a kick back from this payment? Or preferential treatment of some kind? What if he is allowed to hide some heinous acts in Nigeria because of this payment? And it's actually a bribe? Considering how the world works, this seems a more likely explanation.
I strongly disagree. Considering they've put up $3B to cure polio, paying off a loan that was put forth to aid in eliminating polio, I think (until further notice) it's very straightforward to call a spade a spade. Ockham's razor and all that.
> Again, how do you know this is a "good" thing that he paid someone's debt? I mean, in truly absolute terms? I don't see how it's possible to "know". I think you can guess and assume, that is all.
Why do you expect/want this? Why do you demand something like this? What are you withholding until someone delivers something undeliverable? Are you refusing to give a pat on the back until you get an undisputable report with support from multiple trusted third parties?
You are basically asking for someone to prove that a zebra is a zebra, because it might be a painted horse, even if there are no reasonable hints indicating it might be so.
> Look up the financial crises in many other countries, why did he help only Nigeria?
Because it's about polio, not finance.
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>if I were a citizen of Japan I would be embarrassed You clearly don't understand the Japanese. If anyone is to be embarrassed, it is the Nigerians promising to pay and then failing to. Accepting money from the Bill Gates foundation is more shameful. Japanese do not beg.
The Japanese did not beg. There's nothing shameful about accepting money from the Bill Gates foundation as it has nothing to do with the nation's inability to do something. You're just spinning this to be about Japan.
Consultant32452 said:
"if I were a citizen of Japan I would be embarrassed that the money was not just gifted as part of a foreign aid program."
And my reply is, no, Japanese citizens would not be at all embarrassed about this. Japanese, culturally, do not give hand outs. Giving out money to beggars is not only something they don't do, but something they don't approve of others doing. It's the moral equivalent to feeding the stray cats in the neighborhood. You aren't helping the cats. You are making the cats dependent on handouts and attracting more of them.
Likewise, the Japanese do not expect handouts either. Japanese do not beg. They are too proud to do it, and they know they will be shamed if they were to try anyway.
I am pointing out to Consultant32452 that if he expects the Japanese to be embarrassed about their lack of giving to Nigeria in this case, he is mistaken. Quite the opposite. What Nigeria has done would be considered shameful shirking in Japan.
A. Nigeria GDP is ~$500B US, sovereign debt is $67B, for debt/GDP ratio of 13%. Nigeria can afford to repay this loan. B. If we fail to eradicate polio, it will be back again someday. The rich world should pay for this with all urgency. Kudos to the Gates. https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/nga/ https://dmo.gov.ng/
That doesn't actually tell anyone if they can afford it. What sorts of things does the money go to? Salaries? Food for folks? Other obligations and contracts? Infrastructure? Health care? How much do they have leftover afterwards - can they meet their obligations? How much of that GDP is the government able to capture as a tax? How efficient is tax collection and what is the rate? The second, though. Fair point.
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Given these regimes often are unstable politically and/or corrupt, what prevents new debt being made and filling the pockets of the leaders? In the Jeffrey Sachs model.
I'm personally of the opinion that anyone knowingly loaning money to corrupt or oppressive regimes is guilty of everything that regime does with that money, and the people can not be expected to repay that loan once they overthrow that regime. (That's not an issue in this particular case; fighting polio is obviously a very worthy cause.) Of course when the voters knowingly elect corrupt leaders, it's on them. But unf…
Ultimately it's a question of default. Is default worth it or not? Do creditors agree that the new state deserves new loans after defaulting on predecessor's loans.
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Hey there! I'm a citizen in a country where the current minister of finance was caught with a briefcase of 100.000 DM illegal "donations" from an arms manufacturer to the ruling party. The then-chancellor of 16 years took the fall to protect black party accounts, but nobody spent time in jail. That same party produces nepotism scandals in their home state but nobody cares because nepotism is an open secret through al…
100,000 DM is quite small change no? All countries will have corruption, the difference is the scale of it and in third world countries, the amounts are much much higher (look at Wen Jiabao's family in China or Mahatir in Malaysia)
A. Nigeria GDP is ~$500B US, sovereign debt is $67B, for debt/GDP ratio of 13%. Nigeria can afford to repay this loan. B. If we fail to eradicate polio, it will be back again someday. The rich world should pay for this with all urgency. Kudos to the Gates. https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/nga/ https://dmo.gov.ng/