Live data from Hacker News

What Happened to Yahoo

paulgraham.com

201–210 of 282 posts

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#201
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's hackerly...

No, it's not. That gets at the very essence of my original comment. One of the assertions in the article is that a hacker culture is a necessary ingredient for a successful technology company. I see Apple as a counterexample to this argument. And it's a counterexample that shouldn't be ignored. Apple is driven by design (industrial design, product design, graphic design). They think about products, not technology. Th…

I would say their products and technology are very close to the same thing. I think the biggest difference with Apple, which also yields a more useful way to evaluate other companies, is that Apple is not a software company.

Google's products are mostly software running on servers in datacenters. Facebooks products are the same way. Yahoo's products were mostly software.

Apple's products are not mostly software. Apple sells consumer devices run by software. It's an important distinction, and looking at it that way lets you compare with different sorts of companies, like the technology startup Emotiv Systems[1][2]. They're developing consumer devices that read brain activity like an EEG. They likely spend a lot of time developing their SDK and other software, but they also have to focus on the physical product, like Apple does.

Sometimes people forget or don't realize that "hacker culture" has always had a contingent of hardware guys building solar-cars and robots[3] and kites with cameras.

[1] http://www.emotiv.com/

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotiv_Systems

[3] http://www.irobot.com

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#202
post #20

Yahoo went bad because: 1. It has no notable engineering foundation; 2. It has no clear vision about what it is and where it's going; and 3. Like Microsoft, it's put a business person in charge, which is the death knell of any tech company. You need someone with a technical foundation or a product person, not a business wonk.

Yahoo went bad because a business person was put in charge? From my point of view I would say that is generally the rule rather the exception. Particularly for those firms wanting to go public. I'm going to defer to mixmax's quip about putting a gardner in charge of a gardening firm's finances [1] as the alternative. You can't argue Jobs or Schmidt are not business people. Although Schmidt could be used to either ref…

Schmidt has a technical background though. Among other things he was the co-author of lex.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#203
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Hadoop? Sure Google released the Map/Reduce paper, but it was Yahoo who wrote 90+% of the current industry standard. What about Node.js? That's pretty en vogue right now. We are currently hiring Node.js engineers and have a number of core contributors in various parts of the company. YUI and our other front-end work at Yahoo! is world class. People like Crockford are considered leading experts in doing qual…

Yahoo Search API (whatever its real name is... BOSS or something?) is also fantastic and much superior to Google's (which isn't even really a search api).

Yep, the search API is far better than what Google is offering.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#204
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&... Saying "Yahoo is dead" (pg didn't, btw) is a sensationalist way of saying "Yahoo is in a slow, steady decline." To predict this, look at the leading indicators: - new products - strategic acquisitions - flow of talent - company morale - growth relative to competition - positions in key emerging markets Yahoo seems to be struggling in all these areas. Also, using…

It probably doesn't hurt to look at one of Yahoo's contemporaries along the same metrics, AOL.

it probably looks healthier still when compared with the traditional "media companies" they stole the brand advertising market share from.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#205
post #22

Apple is very conspicuously absent from this article. ...the kind of single-minded, almost obnoxiously elitist focus on hiring the smartest people that the big winners have had. Is Apple a big winner, like Google, Microsoft, and Facebook (the other companies he mentions repeatedly)? Bigger. (Check the last 1, 5 or 10 years on Google finance for the GOOG or MSFT comparison. FB is not public, but...) Do they have this…

Do they have this obnoxiously elitist focus? No. You sure about that? From http://www.apple.com/jobs/us/welcome.html : "Whether you want to be an iPod engineer, a Concierge at an Apple Retail Store, or a sushi chef on an Apple campus (yes, we have sushi chefs), we’re looking for the best. People who are smart, creative, up for any challenge, and incredibly excited about what they do. In other words, Apple people. You…

Every company says the want to hire the best.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#206
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can attest this. I got called from Google during 2006. The HR guy screened me on the phone with all TCP/IP questions. I was amazed because he knew so much about TCP/IP and UNIX socket. It turned out that he was a former software engineer in Bell Lab/Lucent. It has been the best initial phone screen that I ever have.

Why would a programmer go work in HR?

I don't know. The guy who called said he was working as contract recruiter for Google. Maybe it's due to bad economy or downsizing?

I can imagine a software engineer who is suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome switches jobs from writing to keyboard to talking on the phone.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#207
post #20

Yahoo went bad because: 1. It has no notable engineering foundation; 2. It has no clear vision about what it is and where it's going; and 3. Like Microsoft, it's put a business person in charge, which is the death knell of any tech company. You need someone with a technical foundation or a product person, not a business wonk.

You need to put a business person in place, who also has a technical background(look at Steve Jobs, although he is not a techie, he worked from day one with technical people and understand them).

Steve is the ultimate product guy. Agree with him or not, agree with his vision or not, he clearly has a vision for Apple and its products.

The same can't be said for Carol Bartz or Steve Ballmer. Those are the people you want in the room when you're organizing an M&A deal, not when creating consumer oriented products.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#208
Very similar to AOL's situation except they went even further in becoming a media company.

Dial-up access was their inflated source of revenue and their focus for much of the 2000s was on ad sales and not hacking.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#209
post #24

Rich Yahoo in 1999 overlooked the value of search. Rich Google in 2004 overlooked the value of social networking (both their in-house hit Orkut and outside services).

What is Rich Facebook going to overlook?

Developing products with practical value. Early Facebook was a great little tool for keeping in touch with friends and getting invited to parties. They could have built on that aspect and made something useful.

Instead they decided to encourage the kind of spam that generates page impressions that sell ads like a media company... Lucky they're full of clever people, I guess.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could have been Diaspora but the Diaspora team made such a big public splash and have so many eyeballs now I'm not so sure. Surely somebody at the top of Facebook has got to be looking at that Kickstarter pledge level of $200k and thinking, "Uh, Mark? We have to talk..."

I really don't think Diaspora was ever on their radar. They'll have far more credible threats in the future.

Mark Zuckerberg actually donated to Diaspora: http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/05/zuckerberg-interview/
Post reply on HN