Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

twitlonger.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 256 posts

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#201

Post by majewsky »

notyourday wrote: post #188
cnewey wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument that algorithms are transparent is equally flawed. There is an entire field of research dedicated to introspection of layers in convolutional neural networks! A system that is complex and nuanced enough to be able to deal with a problem such as auto-moderating YouTube videos will be phenomenally difficult to inspect (and nearly impossible to "adjust" in the way that you seem to be suggesting). To clarif…

It is not flawed at all. If you cannot provide a validation for your algorithm decisions when challenged then you algorithm belongs in a research lab or on your laptop, not in production.

Okay, then your argument is valid... in a different layer of reality. Meanwhile, everyone and their dog are rolling out blackbox neural net classifiers to production

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#202

Post by joshuamorton »

notyourday wrote: post #188
cnewey wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument that algorithms are transparent is equally flawed. There is an entire field of research dedicated to introspection of layers in convolutional neural networks! A system that is complex and nuanced enough to be able to deal with a problem such as auto-moderating YouTube videos will be phenomenally difficult to inspect (and nearly impossible to "adjust" in the way that you seem to be suggesting). To clarif…

It is not flawed at all. If you cannot provide a validation for your algorithm decisions when challenged then you algorithm belongs in a research lab or on your laptop, not in production.

>It is not flawed at all. If you cannot provide a validation for your algorithm decisions when challenged then you algorithm belongs in a research lab or on your laptop, not in production.

Alright, then you cannot use an algorithm for image or video recognition. So how do you solve this problem?

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#203

Post by rfdub »

The thing I really, really don't get about modern media companies (IE. YouTube, Facebook, etc.) and their approach to advertising is their almost universally puritanical policies. I mean I get it to a point, they're trying to mitigate the risks of someone getting offended and suing them or something, but at the same time its such a lazy and one size fits all approach.

They have all this data about people, yet they're too lazy, or too genuinely puritanical, to actually use that data to show the right ads to the right people. Take for instance the category of drug "paraphernalia," (not to mention actual drugs). Neither Facebook, YouTube or Google will allow advertisers to advertise for these kinds of products, even in markets where they are completely legal. You'd think a more reasonable, and profitable approach, would be to use all that data to only allow advertisers to target these kinds of ads to people of legal age, in markets where these products are legal, but no, no-one can advertise them to anyone, anywhere, ever.

And what about sex toys? Why can't videos of say sex toy reviews, be age-gated, and then so called "Adult ads," you know, only be shown to the verified adults watching those videos? I'm sure there are lots of sex toy companies who would love to advertise to that audience, and I'm sure someone watching a sex toy review video would much rather see an ad for a sex toy than for another fucking Nissan, but yet again, Google et all would rather impose their bizarrely puritanical morality on the world, than do their jobs and build a system that actually works.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#204

Post by mizzack »

ugh123 wrote: post #51

I don't see the issue. Google is curating their platform and trying to remove as much un-original and reasonably offensive content. The doc also didn't seem to contain any political leanings or cultural shifters. I believe much of this is part of the service agreement on Youtube. Only issue I see here is the manual review process and subjectivity baked into that.

Completely disagree about there not being any political leanings.

See the Controversial section here: https://i.imgur.com/vkBrkns.jpg

e.g. religious videos of any sort are automatically deemed controversial (way more inclined to be right leaning), but videos about racial justice (left) are exempt (unless, of course, they are anti-racial justice videos, in which case they must be removed.)

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#205

Post by majani »

_dps wrote: post #185
majani wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why you're the only skeptic in a forum that's usually skeptical about every post. Yes, you're right, this is not Google's MO. Google tend to look for software based solutions first and foremost before resorting to humans to solve problems. Recently Google have really been working on their voice transcription software and I imagine they could easily design a bot that scans subtitles and video frames for offen…

In the past I would have agreed with your skepticism, but they just announced a huge human-powered review team: http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/05/technology/google-youtube-hi... I don't know based on that article if it's directly related, but they've obviously decided that they need serious human review teams.

Wow, my mind is blown. Makes me now feel like all those claims Google made in the past about how impractical hiring a customer care team would be for them was just pure BS.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#206

Post by fhood »

rfdub wrote: post #203

The thing I really, really don't get about modern media companies (IE. YouTube, Facebook, etc.) and their approach to advertising is their almost universally puritanical policies. I mean I get it to a point, they're trying to mitigate the risks of someone getting offended and suing them or something, but at the same time its such a lazy and one size fits all approach. They have all this data about people, yet they're…

I mean sex toys and bongs are one thing but excess profanity? Are you kidding me?

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#207

Post by ntuch »

rfdub wrote: post #203

The thing I really, really don't get about modern media companies (IE. YouTube, Facebook, etc.) and their approach to advertising is their almost universally puritanical policies. I mean I get it to a point, they're trying to mitigate the risks of someone getting offended and suing them or something, but at the same time its such a lazy and one size fits all approach. They have all this data about people, yet they're…

>use that data to show the right ads to the right people

To expand on what you're saying here, YouTube allows offended people to bully them by contacting advertisers and saying things like, "YouTube is putting ads for your company in front of videos about hitler!!" And YouTube just immediately caves to that.

YouTube's response from day one should have been, "no, we don't put ads in front of videos, that's not how this works. This isn't tv where the ad is broadcast whether someone is watching or not. This is a website that plays videos you ask for. We (youtube) have data about you. We (try to) select an ad specifically for you. We did not play that ad for Pepsi because it has anything to do with hitler. We played it because (our data suggested) the ad is relevant to you. And then afterward, we played the Hitler vid because that's what you clicked on."

That seems like such an obvious, slam dunk response to me. I think the reason YouTube didn't push back in that manner is that they welcomed the excuse to start pushing political content they don't like off their platform.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#208

Post by juanmirocks »

rfdub wrote: post #203

The thing I really, really don't get about modern media companies (IE. YouTube, Facebook, etc.) and their approach to advertising is their almost universally puritanical policies. I mean I get it to a point, they're trying to mitigate the risks of someone getting offended and suing them or something, but at the same time its such a lazy and one size fits all approach. They have all this data about people, yet they're…

Likely same reason as for the Apple Store's policies. The market of family- and children-friendly content is huge, so these platforms do not want to have any dark stuff associated to them.

Either way, that also leaves a hole, that is, an opportunity for other services.

The possibility to target ads to the the very specific taste of single individuals is very recent and, I would argue, not fully mastered yet.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#209

Post by jacksmith21006 »

ntuch wrote: post #207
rfdub wrote: post #203

The thing I really, really don't get about modern media companies (IE. YouTube, Facebook, etc.) and their approach to advertising is their almost universally puritanical policies. I mean I get it to a point, they're trying to mitigate the risks of someone getting offended and suing them or something, but at the same time its such a lazy and one size fits all approach. They have all this data about people, yet they're…

>use that data to show the right ads to the right people To expand on what you're saying here, YouTube allows offended people to bully them by contacting advertisers and saying things like, "YouTube is putting ads for your company in front of videos about hitler!!" And YouTube just immediately caves to that. YouTube's response from day one should have been, "no, we don't put ads in front of videos, that's not how thi…

Based on what do you think Google is pushing off political context they do not like? We can see the screen here that there is nothing like that. Would suggest your allegation is untrue and Google is doing g nothing like you suggest and is the exact opposite.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#210

Post by juanmirocks »

Leaks, secrecy, demonetization, ... ?? Jezz, relax.

Google/YouTube is just changing their policies for content and ads. It is absolutely comprehensible. It means lots of dollars.

Whining youtubers should adapt. Period. And if they are still not happy, then switch to another social media platform. Or for that matter create a new one.

"Secret YouTube Meeting"... what a stupid concept.

Post reply on HN