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Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#201

Post by gozur88 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #112
ralfd wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://infoproc.blogspot.de/2008/07/annals-of-psychometry-iq... Stephen Hsu argued there that Feynmans school iq test must have had a low ceiling. From what we know about the consistently high IQ scores of other incredibly bright theoretical scientists that sounds likely.

The reality is that most IQ tests do not go all that high. It is quite challenging to get an accurate IQ score above a certain range. It requires not only the right assessment tools -- ie tests -- but a trained professional administering it. Gifted kids mess with test administrators all the time, sometimes intentionally so. (Plus, to get a super high score, you need to test the child by about age 7. After that age, w…

>Yet, also, IQ tests are strongly influenced by cultural knowledge, good scores in kids strongly correlate to kids coming from upper middle class families with well educated parents, etc.

Why do you assume that's cause and not effect?

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#202

Post by thaumasiotes »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #199
thaumasiotes wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a positive correlation between IQ and chess ability. That does not imply that there should be a positive correlation between IQ and chess ability in a group that has been selected for strong performance in chess.

Is this Simpson's Paradox, or something else?

Something else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_conclusion_validit...

> Restriction of range, such as floor and ceiling effects or selection effects, reduce the power of the experiment, and increase the chance of a type II error.[5] This is because correlations are attenuated (weakened) by reduced variability

If you want to try this for yourself, try generating some fake SAT scores: (a,b) pairs where a and b are normally distributed with mean 500 and sd 100, and where a and b correlate at about 0.8.

Then, from your unbiased data set, select all the pairs for which 1600 >= a + b >= 1300, and check the correlation of a with b in the new, smaller data set.

Just examining this as a thought experiment, you can see that someone with an 800 math score might have a verbal score anywhere from 500 to 800. If we lower the math score, our expectation for the verbal score rises -- someone with a 600 math score will have a verbal score between 700 and 800. That is the basis of the negative correlation in the subgroup, but it's purely an artifact of the way we chose to label data points as being in or out of the subgroup.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#204

Post by EGreg »

How do intelligent people cope with the thought that we can die at any time and afterwards all existence as you know it comes to an end?

It makes things seem pretty meaningless. Even the top accomplishments that I aspire to do will, at the end of the day, be just a temporary thing.

Add to this the prospect that in 50-100 years everything we do now and build now will be as quaint as people who stiched clothes by hand. It will all be automated so even the jobs we do today are like playing with children's toys.

So what's the point of it all? As I got older, I started feeling all the social experiences and all the rooftop bars and so on are just more of the same. A bit like hearing similar jokes over and over. I still enjoy experiences but in the back of my mind I don't really see the point anymore.

I still really enjoy my work and making progress on it. But that dread is often there, especially during late nights. Especially after I finish a video game and the ending of that game world makes me think of being one level up.

Anyone feel this way? How did you deal with it?

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#205

Post by hyperpallium »

brailsafe wrote: post #185
orangecat wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. That's just not true, even with the edit. Certainly high intelligence by itself isn't sufficient, but you're not going to find many physics PhDs with a 90 IQ.

I think it's worth considering though how much of that is pure problem solving ability, and how much is enthusiasm. I'd wager that the majority of academic programs could be successfully completed as long as long-lasting enthusiasm and time management are in place. Also worth considering is just how many factors can lead to a negative outcome. I'd bet that physics PHDs get there with persistence, enthusiasm, and mone…

Yes. You need human-level intelligence. The rest is personality characteristics (like slogging away for years), circumstances etc.

But this could be said for all intellectual achievement. I would go further, and say there are no geniuses, only acts of genius. Perhaps one person "could have done" it quicker than another... but the important achievement is that someone actually did do it.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#206

Post by hyperpallium »

orangecat wrote: post #175
croon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree on your overall point that you should be using your mind for something productive rather than showing off, I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. IQ might help you understand a subject better, but being focused, studying, planning, and having the motivation is what gets you degrees.

I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. That's just not true, even with the edit. Certainly high intelligence by itself isn't sufficient, but you're not going to find many physics PhDs with a 90 IQ.

IQ was devloped as a predictor of getting a degree. So it has something to do with it. At least historically.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#207

Post by LV-426 »

LV-426 wrote: post #173
DoreenMichele wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am medically handicapped and was also suicidal throughout high school. I had better test scores in high school than grades. I missed a lot of school and often failed to do homework. In most cases, past grades are a better predictor of future grades than test scores. But college was physically easier for me because I had more control over my schedule and was thus better able to accommodate my handicap. So my grades…

> But I will note that the comment you replied to said nothing about IQ. I only spoke of a need for validation and that's it. I was quite careful to not suggest it had anything to do with intelligence or competence. What did you mean by " smarts ", if not "intelligence", "competence" or "IQ"?

Downvoted for asking someone a question/clarification? WTF.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#208

Post by CurtMonash »

I once posted on a message board plagued by an anti-evolution, anti-medicine idiot who bragged of his Mensa membership. So I looked at their website, and there's a test you can take to see if you're smart enough for them. I did the entire half hour test minus two questions while sitting on the toilet for five minutes, with (except for those two questions) a perfect score.

This was not surprising to me.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#209

Post by mindfulhack »

EGreg wrote: post #204

How do intelligent people cope with the thought that we can die at any time and afterwards all existence as you know it comes to an end? It makes things seem pretty meaningless. Even the top accomplishments that I aspire to do will, at the end of the day, be just a temporary thing. Add to this the prospect that in 50-100 years everything we do now and build now will be as quaint as people who stiched clothes by hand.…

I have had life experiences recently (great, great loss) that make me realise and see (quite clearly) that there is no 'point' to things either. Things just are, reality just is (you can do nothing about it, you can only accept it or try to fight against it), and 'purpose' is just meaning we choose to make of it - bullshit stories of our own self-delusion - whether knowingly or not.

It's thrown me into depression (as I'm not used to not being goal-based) and I'm kind of in a big existential limbo right now.

At this point, I'm realising that if there is no purpose in anything, don't live with purpose. Instead, focus on process, and action. Simply accept what is (observe reality), instead of imagining or striving for what isn't, and to me it seems a more logical and successful life, all previous things said.

Be more connected to reality. Simply, existentially focus on that. Reality is different to 'truth', in a way. Reality doesn't involve much thought, or actually any at all.

It's a mindfuck because I just gave a purpose or reason for living this way - but I've articulated the mechanism: don't live with purpose, just live with process. Just do, and yeah read some Eckhart Tolle. And Byron Katie.

And here's a thought: There's no point to anything, so you may as well feel love.

Re: Superior IQs associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

#210

Post by mindfulhack »

I identify a lot with the general theme of this article. I've worked out from mindfulness-type observation inside me that most of my intelligence is just cognitive, problem-solving energy powered by massive anxiety complexes, which are the result of intergenerational trauma (of neglect, abandonment and judgement) passed down to me...so, do I keep my intellectual 'gift' yet suffer at the same time, or what? #existential
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