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The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

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Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#201

Post by valuearb »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #196
valuearb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As disgusting as this story is, freedom of speech isn't a freedom if it magically disappears because a collection of people say it instead of a single person. I'd much rather have a raucous marketplace of ideas and opinions that let people choose for themselves, over having the government make their medical decisions. For example, thousands of deaths have been attributed to the tough drug approval requirements in the…

Let's not confuse the issue by taking about freedom of speech, at least without acknowledging that the rules for commercial speech have always been different (and much stricter). I don't really know anyone who thinks "Remember the good old days when cigarette ads were on TV?" (that was a thing). Prescription ads on TV are a relatively recent thing anyway (really 1995 in the US), one in which a powerful lobbying group…

The US Constitution does not treat "commercial speech" any differently than personal speech. The US Supreme court did, and it's rulings on the subject are politically biased and clearly wrong (the first made while under threat of court packing by FDR). US Court of Appeals judge Alex Kozinski stated, in regard to the 1942 ruling, "the Supreme Court plucked the commercial speech doctrine out of thin air"

Many people remember the good old days when individual rights and limits on the federal government were enforced closer to US Constitutional requirements.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#202

Post by valuearb »

true_tuna wrote: post #186
valuearb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As disgusting as this story is, freedom of speech isn't a freedom if it magically disappears because a collection of people say it instead of a single person. I'd much rather have a raucous marketplace of ideas and opinions that let people choose for themselves, over having the government make their medical decisions. For example, thousands of deaths have been attributed to the tough drug approval requirements in the…

Deliberate deception is not protected speech. These people deliberately lied and created the most lethal epidemic of drug abuse in our country’s history. Don’t defend their right to do it. You cheapen the notion of free speech when you do.

Fraud is not protected speech. If these people committed fraud they should be prosecuted. But outside that, stop interfering in my right to hear what they have to say.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#203

Post by Gatsky »

fencepost wrote: post #175
Gatsky wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the benefits of oxycontin for acute pain are highly contentious. For advanced cancer pain, oxycontin is effective and the rates of addiction are very low. Patients can't wait to get off it usually if the pain improves. There are likely to be many physiological and psychological factors explaining these differences.

I'd really like to see some citations for your statement that patients with advanced cancer pain "can't wait to get off" of their opiods "if the pain improves." "Advanced cancer pain" and "pain improves" [to a level where withdrawal seems like a good idea] seem like things that rarely go together. I could see people getting off of oxycontin to go onto stronger painkillers in hospice, but that feels like a very differ…

Advanced cancer is treatable of course! The median survival for some types of advanced breast cancer is 7 years from diagnosis. Those patients may present with pain, start treatment, and get better. Happens all the time.

As for a citation, well nobody has done a study on that specific point, I'm talking from my experience of 500 or so patients.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#204

Post by erasmuse »

biaachmonkie wrote: post #200
erasmuse wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should humans have instead of sugar?

Fat, Animal fat, Plant fat. Fat and a little bit of protein. There is no dietary need for sugar or carbohydrates at all, your body is capable of making the tiny amount it needs through the process of gluconeogenesis. Research the Ketogenic diet.

Humans mostly don't eat sweet stuff for calorific or nutritional purposes. Rather I think they enjoy puddings, cakes, chocolate, and so on, for psychological reasons (comfort, pleasure) as well as for cultural reasons. So my question remains. What should they substitute to maintain an even mental keel? What should should be served or otherwise laid on at social gatherings that yields equivalent cheer and can be passed down from grandmother to grandaughter?

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#205

Post by Invictus0 »

iaw wrote: post #143
appleflaxen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which part bothers you?

There's a hypocrisy intrinsic in claiming that OxyContin is too dangerously addictive to go generic but still pushing it in under-saturated markets. It's the disregard of human life/experience innate in this line of behavior.

I don't think you cited the portion of the article you intended to. Your whole comment is confusing.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#206

Post by markdown »

valuearb wrote: post #197
maskedSlacker wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that the patient should be influencing treatment BASED ON WHAT THEY SAW ON TV is absurd. It's like you didn't even read what you responded to. What is this, reddit?

How do you think people get informed? Do you really think that advertising isn't useful to informing people? Do you really think as many patients would find out about viable treatments for their conditions if you ban advertising? Advertising isn't hypnosis. People know not to take claims at face value and if they don't, US medical ads are full of disclaimers and warnings. And once you see an ad for a treatment, you h…

> Do you really think doctors alone should decide your treatment?

Yes. Not necessarily one doctor, or even two doctors. Get a second opinion, or just switch your doctor if you don't like them.

The alternative of letting profiteers peddling medicine influence a poorly educated populace is most unfortunate.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#207

Post by Spooky23 »

valuearb wrote: post #176
EvanAnderson wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ick! This reinforces my belief that direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs should be illegal.

As disgusting as this story is, freedom of speech isn't a freedom if it magically disappears because a collection of people say it instead of a single person. I'd much rather have a raucous marketplace of ideas and opinions that let people choose for themselves, over having the government make their medical decisions. For example, thousands of deaths have been attributed to the tough drug approval requirements in the…

How would you feel if your doctor gave you thalidomide to treat anxiety, and you ended up with a deformed baby as a result, because the raucous marketplace cared more about moving drugs than patient safety?

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#208

Post by Spooky23 »

maskedSlacker wrote: post #185
valuearb wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that the patient should be influencing their own treatment decisions is absurd?

The idea that the patient should be influencing treatment BASED ON WHAT THEY SAW ON TV is absurd. It's like you didn't even read what you responded to. What is this, reddit?

What do you mean? The purple pill looks like fun!

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#209

Post by Spooky23 »

yourapostasy wrote: post #52
wozniacki wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Massachusetts episode of Parts Unknown, Bourdain talks to a general physician who explains how patients who were administered OxyContin for routine procedures & injuries quickly developed a habit for the drug and when they couldn't find it post-treatment moved to illegal variants like Heroin and now Fentanyl.[1][2] Bourdain travels to Franklin County to explore the heroin epidemic that’s spreading throughout t…

> ER / Hospital performance was tied to their pain scores and the generous administration of pain medication to patients... Trace back how these performance metrics were chosen, look in history if there was any advocacy or studies funded by Sackler-controlled/-influenced parties to tilt the selection of performance measurements towards subjective pain "scoring". It would be interesting to find out if Arthur's insight…

That more about managed care and managing ER outcomes like help desk tickets. The old fee for service models are going away as costs increase.

Medicare and Medicaid HMOs pay for “results”, not visits. So you need to either get admitted or get the hell out and don’t come back to the ERir they lose revenue.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#210

Post by valuearb »

markdown wrote: post #206
valuearb wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think people get informed? Do you really think that advertising isn't useful to informing people? Do you really think as many patients would find out about viable treatments for their conditions if you ban advertising? Advertising isn't hypnosis. People know not to take claims at face value and if they don't, US medical ads are full of disclaimers and warnings. And once you see an ad for a treatment, you h…

> Do you really think doctors alone should decide your treatment? Yes. Not necessarily one doctor, or even two doctors. Get a second opinion, or just switch your doctor if you don't like them. The alternative of letting profiteers peddling medicine influence a poorly educated populace is most unfortunate.

Just because some might not use freedom wisely doesn’t mean it should be denied to anyone.
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