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Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

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Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#201
post #161
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only been ~1yr since the election. You have to be patient for big cases like this. Until then we have to trust the US intelligence community. Their messaging has been consistent that their arch-enemy they've been competing with for decades pulled a fast one on them and was unexpectedly effective at influencing an election. Government sources have been leaking a bunch of stuff to the press in the meantime. This w…

It's odd that people keep saying to trust the intel agencies, since much of the best research on the propaganda side is done in academia, and the data is out there. Here's a Tableau of the influence of just 6 of the ~200 recently banned Russian-run groups on Facebook: https://public.tableau.com/profile/d1gi#!/vizhome/FB4/TotalR... Here's the raw data: https://data.world/d1gi/missing-fb-posts-w-share-stats Here's some…

I read through each of your links and there's some interesting stuff there. Overall it looks like Russia basically ran a full-time campaign marketing team with access to a few million dollars for ad and social media sharing buys.

That said, the breathlessly covered "tens of millions of ad impressions" isn't that much on Facebook. From my experience getting 0.1% of viewers to care would be a significant number.

Being familiar with online marketing makes a lot of this sound less scary.

What I'd love to see is the Russian ad spending in the great context of the entire campaign. Considering both sides spent $1 billion on their combined campaigns it's entirely possible that the ~200 PR stories and 10M ad impressions are a minor blip in the wider scale.

What's interesting is how many people voluntarily shared these posts because it struck a chord with them (although it's equally as easy to buy fake likes/shares). And the fact they were focusing on critical swing states that Hillary's massive campaign failed to hit, basically non-english foreigners outperforming the most expensive American consultants...

The leaked data is another story and Wikileaks will never be proven, which means 50% of the leaked data is very likely via Russia.

For each of these, there were plenty of moving pieces out of Russia's control (the FBI and media's handling of pretty insignificant stuff, the highly receptive audience sharing the propaganda, etc) that all worked in their favour. Even if their contributions were minor, the US political environment played a huge role in amplifying it into something far bigger than they could ever do themselves.

Outside of some future smoking gun connection with the Trump campaign (which seems highly unlikely so far) it's going to be very difficult to measure exactly how much meaningful influence Russia really had on the elections. But it's an interesting lesson for the future regardless and the vagueness will offer plenty of leeway for the Clinton's campaign to sidestep responsibility for both running a bad campaign and for being a generally unlikable person (which matters more in these popularity contests than capability).

And if you didn't notice my entire original comment was satirizing mainstream discourse. I don't think you need or should trust intel agencies nor the media's uncritical interpretation here. I left it purposefully vague for those smart enough to see through the popular narratives.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>same can be said for US actions over the past decades Is this really the best response? A deflection? Do you know how tiring it gets? How little it advances discussion? My peers are being hunted for documenting war crimes but OK US did similar stuff some decades ago so I guess the topic is resolved for good. Wrapped up nicely with a bow for eternity.

> Is this really the best response? A deflection? Do you know how tiring it gets? How little it advances discussion? What you posted is also a deflection. You are turning false equivalency into a logical fallacy here. How about you address the similarities instead of dismissing uncomfortable truths about your own country while simultaneously attacking others. It is the worst type of jingoism.

>How about you address the similarities

Because it diverts the topic. It is literally introducing the fallacy seen in "And you are lynching Negroes[1]" to avoid the subject. Because of people like you we cannot discuss being victimized today because of deeds in the past made by unrelated entities.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#203
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russians have alledgedly been involved with the Catalonian independence movement Lol, here we go ahead. And where's the evidence of that? I mean damn, those darn Ruskies! Trump, Brexit and Catalonia too! Is there anything happening in western politics that isn't their fault? Wait, I thought the reason Russia allegedly did something to support Leave in the Brexit referendum was because they wanted countries to leave t…

And where's the evidence of that? https://medium.com/dfrlab/electionwatch-russia-and-referendu... http://www.politico.eu/article/russia-catalonia-referendum-f... Summary: there's been some attempts, but not as well organized or concentrated as the US, French or German election campaigns.

For anyone who can't be bothered to click through, the "evidence" is a report from El Pais which says:

1. RT reported on Catalonia in ways which El Pais didn't like.

2. Julian Assange is guilty of tweeting "opinions" and "half truths". The idea that Assange has something to do with Russia is taken as given, although it's about as credible as the rest of it.

3. "Bots" which re-tweeted the famously Russian American Edward Snowden. No evidence that any such bots exist is provided, nor that anyone in Catalonia cares what Snowden thinks.

4. "Pro Kremlin websites" spread "biased news".

In other words, there's absolutely fuck all evidence of the Russian government doing anything in Catalonia. Rather, El Pais was disgusted to discover that there are people in the world - like Australians and Americans - who don't agree with what Spain is doing. And once more, instead of accepting that the world is full of people who disagree with them, they invented a Russian conspiracy!

This entire episode is truly pathetic.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#204
post #201
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's odd that people keep saying to trust the intel agencies, since much of the best research on the propaganda side is done in academia, and the data is out there. Here's a Tableau of the influence of just 6 of the ~200 recently banned Russian-run groups on Facebook: https://public.tableau.com/profile/d1gi#!/vizhome/FB4/TotalR... Here's the raw data: https://data.world/d1gi/missing-fb-posts-w-share-stats Here's some…

I read through each of your links and there's some interesting stuff there. Overall it looks like Russia basically ran a full-time campaign marketing team with access to a few million dollars for ad and social media sharing buys. That said, the breathlessly covered "tens of millions of ad impressions" isn't that much on Facebook. From my experience getting 0.1% of viewers to care would be a significant number. Being…

Measurement of effectiveness is pretty hard, I agree. And as I point out elsewhere, the Russians promoted diversive left-wing causes as well.

But I wish people would stop making claims that it didn't happen just because they (reasonably!) doubt the intel agencies. This stuff is trivially verifiable by anyone with the desire to do so.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#205
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where's the evidence of that? https://medium.com/dfrlab/electionwatch-russia-and-referendu... http://www.politico.eu/article/russia-catalonia-referendum-f... Summary: there's been some attempts, but not as well organized or concentrated as the US, French or German election campaigns.

For anyone who can't be bothered to click through, the "evidence" is a report from El Pais which says: 1. RT reported on Catalonia in ways which El Pais didn't like. 2. Julian Assange is guilty of tweeting "opinions" and "half truths". The idea that Assange has something to do with Russia is taken as given, although it's about as credible as the rest of it. 3. "Bots" which re-tweeted the famously Russian American Edw…

That's a weird response - the links basically support your position that Russian intervention was minimal.

But your response makes it seem like you didn't read it at all! For example, they provide links to some of the Russian twitter accounts:

For example, @DYGq72pblsGauqv (screen name Магаданец Р.Ф.) retweeted a post from Assange comparing events in Catalonia with those on Tiananmen Square in Beijing. This account posts almost exclusively in Russian, and focuses on propaganda accounts, including from the self-proclaimed territory of “Novorossiya” in Ukraine. The great majority of its posts are retweets, marking it as a probable bot.

They also point out these are minority of the amplification: It should be pointed out that these were a minority, compared with the many apparently Catalan and American accounts, both bot and human, which retweeted Assange.

Far from pathetic, I thought they were fairly balanced assessments of the claims.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#206
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone who can't be bothered to click through, the "evidence" is a report from El Pais which says: 1. RT reported on Catalonia in ways which El Pais didn't like. 2. Julian Assange is guilty of tweeting "opinions" and "half truths". The idea that Assange has something to do with Russia is taken as given, although it's about as credible as the rest of it. 3. "Bots" which re-tweeted the famously Russian American Edw…

That's a weird response - the links basically support your position that Russian intervention was minimal. But your response makes it seem like you didn't read it at all! For example, they provide links to some of the Russian twitter accounts: For example, @DYGq72pblsGauqv (screen name Магаданец Р.Ф.) retweeted a post from Assange comparing events in Catalonia with those on Tiananmen Square in Beijing. This account p…

That's a weird response - the links basically support your position that Russian intervention was minimal.

They support my position that there was no such intervention at all: i.e. that your claims are false. It is not that "there have been some attempts but not well organised", as you said. It's that there's no actual evidence of any attempts by the Russian government to do anything in Catalonia at all.

Why would pointing that out be a weird response?

As for "omg tweets", who cares? They present no evidence that such an account is a bot, or Russian, even though the random username makes it a possibility (possibilities not being the same thing as evidence).

But more importantly, how many people speak Russian in Catalonia to begin with, do you think? Surely a plot to somehow influence Catalonia events would involve doing things in Catalan or Spanish, not Russian?

The entire hypothesis falls apart the moment anyone inspects it. That's why it's pathetic.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not criticised New Zealand either, as far as I know. So what? What Trump disrespects tends to be predictable: not tough enough, too friendly to foreigners, not conservative enough etc. Putin happens to be tough, conservative and not especially friendly to foreigners, all attributes that Trump respects and yet which are not very common amongst world leaders. It helps that Putin doesn't speak English and - fantasi…

I think you'll find Russia is doing a bit world wide. They've just finished up the Zapad war games again, denounced Georgia having war games with the US. Getting back into Uzbekistan now that Karimov is gone. Russian companies are now supplying internet and phone service to North Koreans. Crimea is still going on with continuing threats to Ukranian sovereignty. Russian gov has just committed more funds to Kalningrad…

> Russians have alledgedly been involved with the Catalonian independence movement

Of all the unsubstantiated and ridiculous "Russia did a bad thing" allegations I have heard, this one is the most ridiculous (so far).

A deeper understanding of geopolitics would be gained by studying actual things that have really happened.

[0] https://news.bitcoin.com/moscow-stock-exchange-trade-cryptoc...

[1] http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/09/13/venezuela-sto...

[2] https://www.rt.com/business/403804-russian-sea-ports-ruble-s...

[3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-china/saudis-may-se...

[4] https://www.weare121.com/blog/strong-russian-gold-reserve-in...

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#208
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kaspersky was trained by the FSB (former KGB). No, he was trained by the KGB, the predecessor to the FSB, SVR RF, and , I think, a couple other organizations. (That is, he was trained while the Soviet Union and the KGB existed, and before the Russian Federation became independent and existing and new Russian institutions succeeded to the roles of the former Soviet organs.)

Sorry, should have said "Eugene Kaspersky was trained by the KGB."

More specifically, Kaspersky studied at Institute of Cryptography, Telecommunications and Computer Science, which was administered by the KGB, and "offered the best mathematics courses available in the old USSR" [0].

It is disingenuous and misleading (like so much of the anti-Russia narrative) to state that he was "trained by the KGB", as though they taught him everything they know about spy-craft and espionage.

[0] http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/security-it/meet-eugene-kasp...

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this really the best response? A deflection? Do you know how tiring it gets? How little it advances discussion? What you posted is also a deflection. You are turning false equivalency into a logical fallacy here. How about you address the similarities instead of dismissing uncomfortable truths about your own country while simultaneously attacking others. It is the worst type of jingoism.

>How about you address the similarities Because it diverts the topic. It is literally introducing the fallacy seen in "And you are lynching Negroes[1]" to avoid the subject. Because of people like you we cannot discuss being victimized today because of deeds in the past made by unrelated entities. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

> Because of people like you we cannot discuss being victimized today because of deeds in the past made by unrelated entities.

And because of people like you we will continue to make the same mistakes over and over again because analysis of past injustices has become taboo, and identification of irony and hypocrisy in the actions of nations has become too uncomfortable for you to handle, because you still buy into the good guys versus bad guys cartoon rhetoric so prevalent in US propaganda that even grown fucking adults buy into.

See, I can make dumb comments too.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are also things like Kaspersky previously volunteering to provide complete source access to the government. Our government declined the offer. How does this make sense? First, even if they were giving access to their genuine source code repository, there's absolutely no guarantee that the binaries aren't backdoored by Kaspersky, FSB, or both. Alternatively, they could just hand over a phony copy of the source.…

The same code compiled by the same compiler with the same settings compiles to the same binaries. So you can indeed verify that what you're running and what you have the source code to are indeed one and the same. For that matter, they could still do that to this day. Pick the time frame that the alleged hack happened and examine the source. And again you can compare the binary output to ensure that you actually have…

In practice, this isn't really possible, though. The binary is usually going to be slightly different. In theory you could RE the differences and potentially disprove a backdoor, but it's not easy.

Also, it's not necessarily that hard to slip a very subtle backdoor into the source.

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