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The tech sec­tor might be evil

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Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#201

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

nf05papsjfVbc wrote: post #197
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The use of the word 'justification' tells me that you have already judged the actions and are looking for people to explain them. Well, how else could things possibly work? Without any judgement on my part, I couldn't even know whether there is even anything I don't understand or that I disagree about, and what could I possibly expect other than that people explain their position to me? > From this, it appears (to…

As for why I think we can't come to an agreement, it's not because we are already in disagreement but because I believe (from this tiny conversation) that our views on things are so far apart that it's hard to bridge that gap in this medium and in a short period of time. As for the last part, I'd like you to consider why people react differently to those wordings. I've also observed that the wording doesn't matter if…

> As for why I think we can't come to an agreement, it's not because we are already in disagreement but because I believe (from this tiny conversation) that our views on things are so far apart that it's hard to bridge that gap in this medium and in a short period of time.

In which case I still don't see the point of bringing it up?! I mean, either you think it is worthwhile to discuss something, then you do, or you don't, then you don't. What's the point of engaging about something and then wasting bandwidth with explanations of why you think it's a waste of bandwidth?

> As for the last part, I'd like you to consider why people react differently to those wordings.

Now, are we talking about people as in "people out there" or as in you?

Because while I can see that different approaches are more useful when trying to reach different people, it seems to me a bit like you are trying to reject arguments on purely formal grounds even when you understand them perfectly well, which ultimately is just evasion and not sincere communication, and I don't see it as my job to overcome that artificial burden.

> I've also observed that the wording doesn't matter if only the wording has changed but the attitude hasn't.

So, what is the attitude that you imagine and how is it a problem?

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#202

Post by cyborgx7 »

And this post was hidden on the second page by the administration.

https://i.imgur.com/tydgqLw.png

Note how the posts above it are older and have less votes. I also saw it disappear from pretty far up on the front page when I reloaded the page.

If you are trying to change people's mind about the tech industry, this isn't helping your case.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#203

Post by skwirl »

cyborgx7 wrote: post #202

And this post was hidden on the second page by the administration. https://i.imgur.com/tydgqLw.png Note how the posts above it are older and have less votes. I also saw it disappear from pretty far up on the front page when I reloaded the page. If you are trying to change people's mind about the tech industry, this isn't helping your case.

It's not on the front page because when Americans woke up they flagged it off the front page. It's not "the administration," it's the user base.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#204

Post by riot504 »

mrtksn wrote: post #124
lucaspiller wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen quite a lot of suggestions on here that X shouldn’t be allowed to fail by the state, but I don’t really get it. Taking Twitter, it’s not like they are a railway or fuel company that if it shut down would cause massive disruption for many people and industries. And let’s not even begin to get into complications about the state (US government) owning them. How would that affect the privacy of users in other c…

Twitter is the medium about what's happening RIGHT NOW. In before you would open the TV or the radio to get information about what's happening right now but these days many people would look at Titter to get information about "RIGHT NOW". It could be mundane things about the lives of other people or it could be an event that's affecting large number of people. If something is happening, there would be reports of obse…

Twitter is useless. Nothing would occur to the US or world if Twitter would shut-down today.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#205

Post by ashark »

dalbasal wrote: post #200
ashark wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”Small set of very narrow purposes” or even “data” are too difficult to define legally. There’ll be loopholes to exploit. Eh, not really. I don't see how you can maintain this position without concluding that laws aren't possible at all. And laws aren't code. Judges can and do smack people down for being too "clever" in how they interpret them. The 5-year-old's "I'm not touching you!" defense generally doesn't work…

>>I can't tell if you're actually advocating... I'm just being silly, mostly. I don't the answers. I have been involved with legislation a little though, and quite a lot with “regulations” (in the regulated industries sense). The 5 year old defence holds water in a surprising number of cases. The problem of definitions in law is real, and kind of reminiscent of the problem of specifications in software. For example,…

> Legislation is a tool. It has lots of hangups, a legacy from thousands of years of history. It’s not always the best tool for the job. I’m not an anarchist, I just feel we’re get more milage from better browser behaviour and defaults than laws in this particular instance.

I care about a lot more than browser data, though. I don't really care how they're getting the data, I think they shouldn't be able to, and if they do it should be because they have to have it in order to provide a service to their customers, and they should be so strictly limited in what they can do with that data that conducting any business unrelated to it is incredibly risky even if they don't intentionally leverage it to their advantage. Credit card companies collecting & selling data, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, banks, magazines selling subscriber lists, cable companies selling your data, all of it should be banned. When collecting user data can't be avoided, it should come with scaling, large bond or escrow requirements to cover customer damages (which ought to be set at a high level with the leak itself considered damaging, no further proof of damage required) in the case of leaks. I want companies to treat personal data of users as something like nuclear waste: try not to make any if possible, and spend a lot of money making sure it's safe if you must keep it around.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#206

Post by evgen »

3131s wrote: post #137
taway_1212 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the disdain for working in the arms sector. After all, weapons are just tools, it's the politicians who decide what to do with them. You should despise the king, not the gunsmith.

Just like the guy pulling the lever in the gas chamber.

And in the vast majority of the cases the guy pulling the lever happened to be on that side of the gas chamber door because his nation had a strong defense sector and the government that was supposed to protect the people on the wrong side of that door had a weak defense sector. Maybe ask yourself what side of the door you want to be on before getting up on that high horse.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#207

Post by szatkus »

jdietrich wrote: post #184
mrtksn wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company is not making money but there are lots of people trying to keep it around it probably means that the company is making money for these people but it's not reflected to the books directly or the payment is due for later time. It's bit of like building roads that on the books may look like unprofitable venture but the utility they provide makes possible for other businesses to flourish so the roads are kep…

>Do we really want to see Twitter gone? Can we have RSS back? I mainly use Twitter as an ersatz RSS substitute, because most publishers killed off RSS in favour of social media.

I just use Twitrss for those.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#208

Post by maxerickson »

evgen wrote: post #206
3131s wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the guy pulling the lever in the gas chamber.

And in the vast majority of the cases the guy pulling the lever happened to be on that side of the gas chamber door because his nation had a strong defense sector and the government that was supposed to protect the people on the wrong side of that door had a weak defense sector. Maybe ask yourself what side of the door you want to be on before getting up on that high horse.

I'd rather die than participate in mass murder.

I mean, I don't want to die, but if you are gassing people, you've not really come out ahead of the people you are gassing.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#209

Post by JBlue42 »

mrtksn wrote: post #124
lucaspiller wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen quite a lot of suggestions on here that X shouldn’t be allowed to fail by the state, but I don’t really get it. Taking Twitter, it’s not like they are a railway or fuel company that if it shut down would cause massive disruption for many people and industries. And let’s not even begin to get into complications about the state (US government) owning them. How would that affect the privacy of users in other c…

Twitter is the medium about what's happening RIGHT NOW. In before you would open the TV or the radio to get information about what's happening right now but these days many people would look at Titter to get information about "RIGHT NOW". It could be mundane things about the lives of other people or it could be an event that's affecting large number of people. If something is happening, there would be reports of obse…

I'll say this is the only reason I've really stayed with Twitter. And it's not about the "right now" everywhere else but in my own neighborhood. If I hear a bunch of fire engines or helicopters lingering around, it's usually faster to go to Twitter and search my neighborhood to see what's going on than wait for it to be picked up by local news, if it is at all. You still have to use your brain to try and sort the signal from the noise.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#210

Post by GhostVII »

throwaway613834 wrote: post #4

What sucks is I can't just tell my friends "you're working for an evil company -- just look at {insert 5 evil things they did in the past couple years}". It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself -- I almost feel they somehow got brainwashed into their jobs. But who would enjoy hearing that? At best they would ignore it; at worst you'd…

What do you consider an evil company though? Are Google and Facebook evil, because they don't preserve your privacy? I certainly don't consider them evil, but you might. Maybe they just have a different idea of evil than you. Or maybe they don't really care too much, and are OK working for an "evil" company if they are making tonnes of money doing it.
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