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EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

reuters.com

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Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#201

Post by staticelf »

Eridrus wrote: post #159
staticelf wrote: post #56

I really hope a new tax bill comes through, I am tired of US companies (and others) that can simply avoid paying tax while small shops pay a lot of taxes in the EU. They use our well developed infrastructure for their own benefit and does not pay anything back. I hope they get a fat bill.

I don't really see why foreign companies should be paying any (non-sales) tax in the EU at all. If you ship a physical product to the EU from China, no-one expects the Chinese factory to pay taxes on their EU revenues. Of course tech companies are not blameless here, they have decided that paying taxes in Ireland is preferable to paying taxes in the US, but if they had their tax location in the US, I don't see how th…

So you mean that companies like Facebook and Google that uses my countrys roads, medical system (for their employees, you don't need to pay for that in my country) and similar stuff, they should pay no tax? Facebook have a big datacenter in my country, partly funded by the government. But yeah, they should pay no taxes. They only consume a lot more of everything than any other company and should give nothing back.

I hope you are not serious.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#202

Post by staticelf »

microcolonel wrote: post #90
staticelf wrote: post #56

I really hope a new tax bill comes through, I am tired of US companies (and others) that can simply avoid paying tax while small shops pay a lot of taxes in the EU. They use our well developed infrastructure for their own benefit and does not pay anything back. I hope they get a fat bill.

They pay for your infrastructure already (aside from last-mile stuff, which you pay for [partially] whether or not it's a local company). If you tax it, the prices just go up, nothing really changes.

Except that Facebook, for instance, got 36 million crowns from the Swedish Government. They don't even pay for their own infrastructure.

https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=...

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#203

Post by staticelf »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #186
staticelf wrote: post #56

I really hope a new tax bill comes through, I am tired of US companies (and others) that can simply avoid paying tax while small shops pay a lot of taxes in the EU. They use our well developed infrastructure for their own benefit and does not pay anything back. I hope they get a fat bill.

They use our well developed infrastructure for their own benefit Can you explain your reasoning more? So, for example an internet user in the EU is paying some local ISP to request services from google.com. The ISP presumably pays taxes on the revenues or profits from using local fiber & infrastructure in order to connect the user with google.com. In this case, they are no different than any other website/domain/inte…

Well, Google operates more than in the web browser. They have a spawn in most countries and mine is no different.

If they employ people in Sweden, sick days are covered by the government, health, roads, parental leave, governmental services, public transportation etc..

If they avoid taxes by simply saying they have no profit here, because they give all the revenue to the parent company, it means that everybody else in Sweden needs to cover their costs since they will probably pay close to zero in taxes. While any other shop needs to pay taxes.

I don't know if skysports operate in Sweden, but my guess is that they do not.

The thing is, I don't want Sweden to become like the US. Because our way of doing things are so much superior in my mind. I don't want to get a bill after I go to the hospital, I want free education, I want good roads and internet connectivity. All the stuff we have companies like these help to destroy to increase their profits.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#204

Post by heavenlyblue »

microcolonel wrote: post #194
heavenlyblue wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamently the problem lies in the fact that civilised countries forget how much more social security a corporation gets from operating a business in there: no hostile takeovers, police coming in time, medical insurance for their employees, functional legal systems. Take all of this away and a corporation is going to be killed instantly (you're a victim of fraud on a massive scale? you haven't payed your taxes this…

> Fundamently the problem lies in the fact that civilised countries forget how much more social security a corporation gets from operating a business in there: no hostile takeovers, police coming in time, medical insurance for their employees, functional legal systems. Wouldn't this all impact ROI?

It would, but it does not since it is provided essentially for free.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#205

Post by whb07 »

Oletros wrote: post #199
whb07 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, let's establish some basic points. Governments don't have money, people do. Companies don't have money, people do. In the case of government, it taxes the money to get funds to spend in its activities. In the case of companies, the investors and employees are the ones who own that money. If you hold those basic tenets true, then why deal with taxing moneyless companies? If you're to look at the breakdown of st…

> But why should the working grandmother in Idaho have to pay EU taxes as she owns a 0.000001% ownership or whatever in Google? In what rational world is that "fair"? She doesn't pay any taxes in the EU.

Uh yeah she does if she owns any Google or FB stock via 401k, or directly owning shares in the company she's getting taxed by EU as she owns the company. That's why it's called a public company and they are openly traded in the market.

When Google gets taxed, grandma in Idaho gets taxed. Corporations don't have money, the people who own the corporation do. Any money coming in would either be invested back to further the company or passed back to the owners of the company. In this case, it's our grandma from Idaho. I'd love to hear any sound logic argument negating anything I just said.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#206

Post by lovich »

ringtail wrote: post #183
lovich wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries restrict their citizens from buying foreign products all the time? The US did it to Cuba as an entire economy

National Security is different matter. Even that can only be done to few countries. Can US or any other country do it whole world ? I highly doubt it.

I mean, it would hurt them a lot, but it's entirely possible

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#207

Post by lovich »

dangsmum wrote: post #175
lovich wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations have a lot of power over countries right now, but does the world you live in ignore everything countries can do to companies who ignore their laws? They can attempt to block everything Google while they build their own local services, ala China. Google is also a US company and while their software might be hard to prevent getting into the EU, they can start leveling sanctions against physical US goods if…

i think you are confounding corporations as physical, "real" organisations in the real world, and cyberspace, which has no nationality by design and where the old world order is not welcome. The old world order would very much like to believe they have dominion over cyberspace, but they do not and should not.

Cyberspace is not some metaphysical entity that exists in the ether. Every website, every connection, is being run on physical hardware. I'm not arguing that cutting off access to something on the internet would be easy or even feasible, and it would hurt any coubtry that tried to, but it is entirely possible

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#208

Post by lovich »

whb07 wrote: post #182
lovich wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is unnecessary taxation all taxation? By your argument every company should just find whatever the lowest tax area of the world is and set up their headquarters there, no one will be able to stop them! Also, if you believe in freedom, why don't you believe that countries have the freedom to stop these massive corporations from extracting wealth from their society and returning nothing? Why does only the corporations…

I don't subscribe to your second paragraph at all. "Extract wealth" how? I'm from the third world and I can instantly tell you the great value that people derive from applications like What's App and the like. To someone in EU or US it's easy to deride these silly applications, but to those who lack the infrastructure it gives new possibilities. Take for instance the case of using what's app as a little store where p…

The EU has wealth in it from it's society and economy. The companies are extracting it by coming in, using their power to take control of the market from local companies and then not paying their share in taxes by using every loophole they can find.

Yes they provide a benefit, but you're bringing up Adam Smith like this is a situation with perfect competition. I might be on the wrong side of this and they are providing a benefit big enough thay the EU would get less net benefit from a local company, but can you admit that there could ever be a case where a company was acting in a way that was detrimental?

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#209

Post by Oletros »

whb07 wrote: post #205
Oletros wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But why should the working grandmother in Idaho have to pay EU taxes as she owns a 0.000001% ownership or whatever in Google? In what rational world is that "fair"? She doesn't pay any taxes in the EU.

Uh yeah she does if she owns any Google or FB stock via 401k, or directly owning shares in the company she's getting taxed by EU as she owns the company. That's why it's called a public company and they are openly traded in the market. When Google gets taxed, grandma in Idaho gets taxed. Corporations don't have money, the people who own the corporation do. Any money coming in would either be invested back to further…

> I'd love to hear any sound logic argument negating anything I just said.

There is no sound logic argument because your claim is completely wrong and ilogical at the same level as taxes are theft and States are like Mafia.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#210

Post by dangsmum »

lovich wrote: post #207
dangsmum wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think you are confounding corporations as physical, "real" organisations in the real world, and cyberspace, which has no nationality by design and where the old world order is not welcome. The old world order would very much like to believe they have dominion over cyberspace, but they do not and should not.

Cyberspace is not some metaphysical entity that exists in the ether. Every website, every connection, is being run on physical hardware. I'm not arguing that cutting off access to something on the internet would be easy or even feasible, and it would hurt any coubtry that tried to, but it is entirely possible

every website is a law unto only itself, every connection breaks the "physical" limits of national borders. the cat is out of the bag and the old powers that be have no power to keep their human slaves on the farm.

https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence

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