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We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

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Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#201

Post by magic_beans »

freehunter wrote: post #184
zzalpha wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this meant to agree with my point or rebut it? This all started when sndean wrote the following: Eventually you stop listening to everyone, even your coach. Running (and most sports) would do well to follow science and have a cited source following every statement. It's a little absurd when someone tells me I'm going to get injured if I don't do more barefoot running. I've been wearing this same model of Brooks sh…

It's meant to say "chill out man". Far too often someone on HN says something that's just common knowledge or off-the-cuff and someone else responds with "where's your evidence and peer reviewed study?". It's nonsense. Actually it's worse than that, it's rude. I'm not arguing for or against anyone's specific claims, just telling you that you don't need a scientific study to say that as people get older, their bodies…

Ha! A pretty big problem with HN (or really, a problem with programmer types), is the astounding lack of common sense that comes from an overly-rigid attachment to the scientific method.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#202

Post by wycklendt14 »

joekrill wrote: post #169
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

No offense to you personally, but it's kind of disconcerting that this is the top comment. You've outright admitted to only having "used to run a bit" -- and not very much, at that. But then go on to promote barefoot running as if you're somehow a fully qualified expert who knows enough to talk on the matter and declare barefoot running is _clearly_ the answer. I'm not saying you're wrong or right. This shoed/barefoo…

I agree with you that there is no proof that barefoot running is better for you, but the problem is there is no proof that cushioned shoes are better for you either...

I have been a minimalist/barefoot runner for 4 years and have run a 50 mile ultramarathon and am currently training for 100 mile ultramarathon. I am constantly asked how/why I do it and the best answer that I can come up with is because I like the way it feels. I feel light on my feet and strong. That being said I would only recommend someone to use minimalist shoes if they truely believes it will be better for them over the long run. When I transitioned it took me 4 years of have sore arches, achillies, and calf musles. Because of this inital pain most people use this as proof that it is bad for you. I spent a lot of time with rollers working out pain in my legs. My muscle and tendons have now become strong enough that I don't get pain. In the last three years I haven't once had a running injury and I average around 50 to 60 miles a week.

I view minimalist running as a long term benifit to me. I want to be able to run into my 60s and 70s. I have consciously made the gamble that minimalist running will allow me to do that. Time will tell if the gamble pays off or not.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#203

Post by magic_beans »

rimliu wrote: post #175
throwanem wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconding long walks. It's easy! You just look around for something interesting, and let your feet carry you toward it - they know what to do, and they will if you let them. Repeat as necessary. When you start to run out of puff, look for interesting things nearer home than not. Stay away from roads and sidewalks, if you can. Trees give shade, and shade is cool and pleasant and helps you husband your energy for findi…

> Chat with people. Say hello. Make eye contact. > Exercise the social skills that help you make > unplanned interactions mutually enjoyable. But please, do not do it with me. I love walking and long walks (just this month I've done three ~40km walks). I fully agree with a few of your points (like keeping phone and earbuds away), but why does not concept of consent apply to chat? When I am walking it is kind of medit…

Do you hate unplanned interaction because it is unenjoyable for you? For most people, it's immensely pleasurable.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#204

Post by magic_beans »

throwanem wrote: post #100
ErikAugust wrote: post #89

From the article: "The first thing I’d say is, you’re probably not doing it right. Most people dislike running because they have memories of things like running for a bus. That kind of running is usually deeply unpleasant, almost vomit-inducing. Most beginners give up when they get injured because they’ve done too much, too soon. Most of the benefits from running derive from going very slowly." I find this premise to…

Seconding long walks. It's easy! You just look around for something interesting, and let your feet carry you toward it - they know what to do, and they will if you let them. Repeat as necessary. When you start to run out of puff, look for interesting things nearer home than not. Stay away from roads and sidewalks, if you can. Trees give shade, and shade is cool and pleasant and helps you husband your energy for findi…

This was a really beautiful comment and I've favorited it to come back to. I wish I could run through the woods barefoot! If only I didn't live in city. But being able to move one's own body freely, unselfconsciously, and ensconced in nature.... one of life's greatest pleasure.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#205

Post by magic_beans »

lazyjones wrote: post #157

If we are born/evolved to run, why do we do it mostly when it's useless to us (i.e. running in circles)? Running as a sport is, in essence, forcing ourselves to do something we supposedly needed so much as a species that we evolved to be good at it. Our lifestyle has changed dramatically and we obviously don't need it much anymore. Perhaps we should be running instead of walking whenever possible? I used to do that w…

> If we are born/evolved to run, why do we do it mostly when it's useless to us (i.e. running in circles)?

Because it's FUN. It's ok to have fun, even if it's not productive.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#206

Post by magic_beans »

vinay427 wrote: post #81
nathancahill wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outdoor gyms have really taken off in Latin America (it's my understanding that they originally became popular in China). The social aspect is great. Quite often, they are in the center of parks and green space downtown. People hang out around them and work out together.

I have seen these in some Indian cities as well, and it's definitely appreciated. However, much of the US has a winter weather problem, perhaps partly only in perception. No one where I live seems to be excited by outdoor infrastructure because of the lack of use during winter months.

LA has tons of public outdoor bodyweight gyms at its beaches. Good weather helps.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#207

Post by zzalpha »

freehunter wrote: post #184
zzalpha wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this meant to agree with my point or rebut it? This all started when sndean wrote the following: Eventually you stop listening to everyone, even your coach. Running (and most sports) would do well to follow science and have a cited source following every statement. It's a little absurd when someone tells me I'm going to get injured if I don't do more barefoot running. I've been wearing this same model of Brooks sh…

It's meant to say "chill out man". Far too often someone on HN says something that's just common knowledge or off-the-cuff and someone else responds with "where's your evidence and peer reviewed study?". It's nonsense. Actually it's worse than that, it's rude. I'm not arguing for or against anyone's specific claims, just telling you that you don't need a scientific study to say that as people get older, their bodies…

I feel like we're talking past each other...

I'm not arguing for or against anyone's specific claims, just telling you that you don't need a scientific study to say that as people get older, their bodies tend to hurt more

Yeah, but... no one disputed that! It wasn't the subject of the argument.

To be clear, the argument is: Is barefoot running better for you over the long term?

That's it. That's the argument. My follow-up comment was specifically intended to explain that to you, since you seemed to have misunderstood.

Unfortunately, it seems like my follow-up wasn't clear enough.

It's all very puzzling. For all I know we're in violent agreement, here, if we could just align on what's being discussed...

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#208

Post by WalterSear »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #124
ak217 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running recreationally since high school, I average about 20 miles/week, an even mix of road/trail. I'm also a bit heavier than a typical avid recreational runner, putting more stress on my legs and feet. Having gone through a variety of shoes, I'd like to caution people about the minimalistic shoe trend, especially if you run mostly on pavement. It's true that overly cushioned shoes can cause heel strike a…

I second this. I've always wore "normal" joggers, been running, playing sport etc without a problem for decades. Swapped to minimalist shoes, and bam, had shin splints for months, I assumed it was the amount I was running for a while before I realised it was just the shoes and their lack of support. Went back to my normal shoes and got insole supports for my new shoes, the shin splints went away very quickly. Turns o…

Did you alter your running style in any way? Fwiw, shin splints with barefoot shoes sounds a lot like heel striking.

Barefoot running feels a bit like pedaling a bicycle backwards, compared to the common running style.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#209

Post by jmulho »

Asooka wrote: post #35
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

Don't you lose about 1/3rd of your stride when you strive to land on the front of your foot as opposed to the heel? Doing heel first lets me put my leg way in front of me as I land on it, then roll over it and push forward once my foot is directly under my body, like a spring. This means longer, more powerful strides. To land on the front of the foot, my leg would have to be very close to my body, meaning shorter, qu…

Here is the theory. Lean forward until you start to fall. Put one foot out to catch yourself. Note where your foot lands. This is where your foot needs to land to stop a fall. You will feel a significant jolt. You have successfully sucked up all the energy of your fall and stopped yourself. You put on the brakes. Now try this again, but place your foot short of where you did the first time. You shouldn't fall, but you will keep moving forward and will need to take another step to stop the fall. Now you have stopped yourself from falling over two steps which is less jolting. Now try again and place the second step short of where you would need to place it to stop, then the third, then fourth. Now you are running. If you want to go faster, shorten your stride and focus on turning your feet over as quickly as you can. If you want to slow down or stop, lengthen your stride and absorb your forward energy. You could overcome the braking action of a long stride by pushing off hard with your back foot but this is not as efficient and harder on the joints. That's the theory. The way to find out if it works for you is to experiment. For me, as soon as I understood this, running became a lot easier. If it works for you, be sure not to overdo it at first.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#210

Post by prestonbriggs »

nthcolumn wrote: post #53
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

Ultra-long distance dudes from Mexico the Tarahumara allegedly run like this. I also heard a story about some guy in Aussie who ran like that - won some crazy long distance race too, smashing the record. It is true that a man will beat a horse in a race if the man is allowed to pick the distance. How about that for evolution? The ultimate persistence hunter.

If it's hot (say, above 70 degree F), a well-trained man can out run a horse over a long distance. If it's cold, the horse will win. The horse's cooling is largely dependent its breathing which is constrained by its pace.
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