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Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

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Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#201

Post by sliken »

drawnwren wrote: post #56
_ph_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "small battery" still has more range than any other electric car out there, except the Bolt, which has a very small lead, but does not seem to be made in large numbers. And it matches the promised range (>215 miles). So it is great value for everyone, who does not need the 300 mile range. So you do get a sporty (0-60 <6s) 5 seated electrical sedan for 35k, which is great.

In what world is a sub 6s 0-60 sporty? The WRX gets 4.6, and I'd consider that the edge of sporty (also cheaper than the 3).

Sure, if you can do this:

* know you need to accelerate ahead of time

* hit the exact right RPM before the clutch drop

* don't mind the noise, burning tires, and clutch wear

* have perfect traction, weather, straight road, temperature

* execute two perfect shifts

With normal driving you also have to worry about what gear you are in, what gear you want to be in, handling the throttle in the mean time, and turbo lag. By the time you go from say cruising on the highway in 6th and full throttle in 3rd the model 3 will already have a substantial jump on you.

The telsa on the other hand is pretty simple, just stomp. There's no wrong gear to be in, no shifting, not much noise (traction control and no gas motor). In a wide variety of situations a Tesla model 3 (at least the large range version) is going to feel faster than a WRX. I have had both a forester xt and a WRX.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#202

Post by falcolas »

mikeash wrote: post #197
falcolas wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried it on ice? Or just dry/wet roads? AWD/FWD/RWD all behave very differently on ice/snow, regardless of traction control.

Yes, I've tried it on ice and snow. When going straight, the traction control is so good that you don't even know it's there aside from the lack of acceleration. I can put my 360hp RWD car on an icy road and floor it from a stop, and nothing happens besides slowly increasing speed. Then back end will break loose if you floor it in a turn, but just don't do that.

That cornering case is the precise case I don't want a RWD car. "Just don't do that" is a really poor attitude to take, especially when you can't tell at what point the rear end will break loose.

I'm past the point in my life where I want the excitement of "will I recover this before I hit the ditch?"

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#203

Post by scott_karana »

laydn wrote: post #81
jimmcslim wrote: post #12

Is there a HUD or do I have to move my eyes to the centre console to check my speed? Seems like bad ergonomics to me... and whereas the road ahead is perhaps still in my peripheral vision when I check my speedo, its less so if I am glancing at the centre console (which maybe has a bunch of other distracting things on it as well?)

Center console indicators are quite common. One advantage is that, the indicators are never blocked when you are in a turn. With your traditional instrument cluster placement, the steering wheel blocks the indicators. Cars with instruments in the center dashboard: Mini Cooper: http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2010-mini-cooper-hardtop-2-do... Toyota Yaris: https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/306771/2009_...…

They're common in base model economy cars.

Not a good sign if the 3 is competing against the 3-series.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#204

Post by prostoalex »

sliken wrote: post #200
prostoalex wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adaptive cruise control is part of the base config.

I thought that required the $5k autopilot.

Looks like you are right, I was wrong - the non-autopilot versions of S come with plain old cruise control, not the "adaptive" one.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#205

Post by mikeash »

falcolas wrote: post #202
mikeash wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've tried it on ice and snow. When going straight, the traction control is so good that you don't even know it's there aside from the lack of acceleration. I can put my 360hp RWD car on an icy road and floor it from a stop, and nothing happens besides slowly increasing speed. Then back end will break loose if you floor it in a turn, but just don't do that.

That cornering case is the precise case I don't want a RWD car. "Just don't do that" is a really poor attitude to take, especially when you can't tell at what point the rear end will break loose. I'm past the point in my life where I want the excitement of "will I recover this before I hit the ditch?"

Cars have tons of "just don't do that" failure modes. For example, flooring it while at a red light. It's not inherently bad advice.

IMO there's a huge difference between a car where "the slightest bit too much pressure" causes the rear end to break loose, and one where the rear end will break loose but only if you really abuse the accelerator. The Model S is in the latter category, and the Model 3 will probably be as well. As long as you drive like a sane person, it's fine.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#206

Post by JBReefer »

foobarge wrote: post #118

Nice but still not what I need. I need a long range electric car whose interior I won't be afraid to damage from time to time. I need something that moves me, my family and my stuff (skis, bikes, windsurf + sails, mountaineering gears, etc..) to where I need to be, not something for showing-off and asserting status. The large screen in the middle of the car is a non complete non-starter - lots of the stuff I carry in…

You want a Ford F-150 or a Tacoma. You can spray the inside of those down with a hose, and range is definitely not an issue.

This is a midsized sedan.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#207

Post by ameen »

Roritharr wrote: post #46

I really hope the German government does something to make it more desirable for employees to want the Model 3 or similar cars as company cars. Just to explain the involved costs: There's two ways the government taxes company cars for employees, either you get to write a driving log, that then marks each route as either private or business and then you get the privately driven part taxed as income OR you just get 1%…

How is paying 1% of the car value seen as attractive? Isn't it $590/month assuming you drove the same car the reviewer drove?

My monthly Uber/Lyft expenses are lower than that, infact top out at ~120 USD. I use it to commute to work, shopping, etc.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#208

Post by aerovistae »

Animats wrote: post #14

Nice, but $59,500 as shown. Not $35,000. The real-world price has crept up. The base model has a small battery. The Tesla Model S starts at $68,000. So the real-world price is down only 13% from the Model S.

"Real-world"? Musk said the Model 3 would have a 220 mile base range from Day 1, years ago. And it does. This isn't price creep. This is delivering exactly what you promised. And for most people, 220 miles is more than enough. How far do you drive to work?

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#209

Post by fulafel »

falcolas wrote: post #188
fulafel wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety comes from all-wheel braking, not all-wheel acceleration. As long as you have traction/stability control, AWD is not really any safer unless you're on a winter rallye track (=want to accelerate into corners). See eg. this study: http://indexsmart.mirasmart.com/25esv/PDFfiles/25ESV-000260....

That paper acknowledges that AWD does provide more traction than 2WD, it just says that drivers can become overconfident as a result of that extra traction. Their data also shows that for cars, across all types of cars, AWD cars are in fewer overall (though more severe; the focus of the paper) accidents than 2wd cars. Given my own experience, even considering this paper, I still want an AWD.

If we're talking about safety, then the injury risk is kind of important.

The paper did not do any research on traction or driver overconfidence so remarks about these are just casual commentary, but for the record, the mention of AWD traction is not particularly relevant to avoiding traffic accidents:

"While these important results imply that AWD shall not be considered as a safety feature, it should be kept in mind that AWD does have benefits in terms of improved traction compared to 2WD cars, for instance on icy uphills, snowdrifts and, depending on the vehicle, in off-road driving"

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#210

Post by vsl »

ameen wrote: post #207
Roritharr wrote: post #46

I really hope the German government does something to make it more desirable for employees to want the Model 3 or similar cars as company cars. Just to explain the involved costs: There's two ways the government taxes company cars for employees, either you get to write a driving log, that then marks each route as either private or business and then you get the privately driven part taxed as income OR you just get 1%…

How is paying 1% of the car value seen as attractive? Isn't it $590/month assuming you drove the same car the reviewer drove? My monthly Uber/Lyft expenses are lower than that, infact top out at ~120 USD. I use it to commute to work, shopping, etc.

It's not. It's paying tax on $590.
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