In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete • Hacker News Board

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#201

Post by lostboys67 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:14 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #133

svckr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany we have a clear distinction between credit- and debit cards. And I guess the culture leans more toward the "saving not loaning" model nickrio describes. So for me it is a conscious decision wether I pay with my bank account or credit. Unlike China however, adoption of digital, low-barrier payments is extremely low here. I mean, hell, we're mostly buying paper bus tickets, while local public transport…

When I lived to Switzerland, I was pretty surprised my debit card (Maestro) couldn't work on credit card networks (Master Card, heck, the logos looked almost the same!). I'm surprised Germany is so far behind switzerland though, I mean, even when I lived there 10 years ago I could use my debit card via chip in a kiosk and have my train ticket very quickly. I don't think standard Beijing city buses take wepay yet. You…

I think it might be cultural as Germany has suffered massive bank crashes throughout the 20th century people trust

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#202

Post by lostboys67 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:15 AM UTC

tanilama wrote: post #187

RealityNow wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in NYC, and most stores seem to have $5-10 credit card minimums. America needs to admit that it's no longer the bastion of innovation that it once was (I say this as an American. If anyone doesn't believe me, just take a trip to East Asia). Americans are complacent and fine with not having the cutting edge (not to mention our failing infrastructure). I wish there was a way to change this attitude, but it feels…

As Chinese, I would say, the scale and speed of China getting rid of cash is truly impressive and makes me proud, but, in US, with credit card and Apple/Android Pay, I am pretty much cashless as well. For me, the achievement of mobile payment is social-economical, that is more about how companies could persuade customers to adapt a new way of doing something than inventing some ground-breaking technology. In case of…

Why are you "proud" of removing cash going fully digital allows governments to implement negative interest rates ie steal your monney

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#203

Post by raverbashing » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:17 AM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #196

raverbashing wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you verify payment with QR code?

In Scandinavia, usually just by showing the "payment sent" screen to the merchant. The merchant can check their own device for the notification if they want confirmation. The annoying background video shows it: http://mobilepay.dk/da-dk/Pages/mobilepay.aspx

Seems a bit slower than NFC, but I haven't seen it in action

(and the payment sent screen can be spoofed)

For tips it seems fine

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#204

Post by lostboys67 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:20 AM UTC

netcan wrote: post #192

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

I think this article hit the nail on the head when it pointed out that being ahead of the curve at one time (with Japan and their advanced flip phones in the early 2000s) can make it harder to adopt the next big advance because what you have is already "good enough". Thus, in the US, I suspect that mobile payments haven't taken off as much because they are only very slightly faster to use than a credit card, as oppos…

I think you're right that this is the dynamic at play here. It is similar to the dynamic by which many regions have leapfrogged landline telephones, skipping the older more infrastructure/capital intensive version of technology. The developed economies were already mostly "cashless." Very little cash has run though most malls, hospitals, schools or even supermarkets for decades already. " We hqave something good enou…

That's because they are poor countries as well as its harder for people / insurgents to nick the copper. Mobile is never going to be as good as FTC (Fiber To CAB) in terms of bandwidth

BTW used to work for a company that did telecoms consultancy in Africa and in Angola they preferred microwave for trunk links as it was harder for the rebels to damage.to

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#205

Post by lostboys67 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:23 AM UTC

tsukaisute wrote: post #31

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile payments haven't taken off in the west because credit cards have worked well enough. In china, lots of small-scale businesses lack POS terminals while Chinese banks put the burden of proof in case of fraud on the card user, rather than the merchant as in the west. Using a credit card in china is an absolute PITA. Since returning to the states from china, I've been happily surprised that I can just tap my credi…

Just wish everyone would hop onboard quicker. We still need a lot of consumer education. For example, Apple Pay works great at Whole Foods. I use it every time. Other people in line painstakingly pay with credit cards, despite holding an iPhone in their other hand. The new chip cards take longer to process, even, 5 seconds or so.

So I have to have a apple phone worth several hundred dollars plus the extortionate mobile charges in the USA instead of a free credit card with tap and go I know which one I prefer

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#206

Post by icebraining » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:23 AM UTC

ec109685 wrote: post #95

justjimmy wrote: post #68

And for those rare places that only do cash, it's not uncommon for the person in line to turn around and ask a stranger for cash and they'll pay that person in a WeChat transfer. Done in seconds. Happened to me and observed it myself a couple of times. With digital wallets, there's zero need for credit cards and their predatory interest rates. China is just absolutely crushing it. The Amazon Self Serve store that's s…

> With digital wallets, there's zero need for credit cards and their predatory interest rates. How is there zero need? If don't need to borrow money longer than 30 days, you pay zero interest. If you do need a bit longer to pay, you have that option.

Since banks aren't charities, the fact that those 30 day loans are "free" just means you're paying for them even if you don't use them.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#207

Post by lostboys67 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:26 AM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #48

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is very strange actually. At least Starbucks would take credit cards, and you should be able to find an ATM that takes your USA-based ATM card. Never had this problem before. I did feel screwed when I arrived in he Netherlands thinking my unionpay card to work, just to find out it was one of the countries besides India where it didn't. Thankfully, I could find some place that took credit cards...but I was fr…

Germany also doesn't really take credit cards. Well, didn't. The EU limited fees for credit cards to 0.125% recently, and while EC (now bought by MasterCard and called Maestro for SEPA) is still cheaper, credit cards start being affordable for merchants. But almost none support it yet. And Google still hasn't launched Android Pay, despite every ALDI having NFC. I'd prefer if there was a local NFC payment option actua…

Yes this supposedly "consumer friendly" change lost me about £20 a month in cashback but the retailers will just pocket the difference and not pass it on to the end consumer

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#208

Post by ian0 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:44 AM UTC

incompatible wrote: post #160

NamTaf wrote: post #52

Everyone in Australia just uses paypass/paywave contactless payment with their credit cards. I rarely carry any signifiant amount of crash for that reason. It's essentially the same as using your phone except you use your credit card and doesn't require a PIN or anything for signature is no longer allowed . Without having used WeChat's approach with QR code scanning, it doesn't seem that different for the end user in…

I'm still puzzled about why lost cards aren't more of an issue with paywave. Does the bank always refund the losses? If so, what's to stop you spending money for a week and then claiming to the bank that none of the transactions were yours?

Both of these problems occur with regular cards too (liability shift & chargeback). Generally the bank will pay for transactions if your card is stolen. They also have checks in place to reduce the scalability of fake chargebacks by customers (friendly fraud) - though its difficult to eliminate completely.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#209

Post by IIAOPSW » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:45 AM UTC

est wrote: post #121

IIAOPSW wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it as a class thing but it certainly is a culture thing. When the American's go to build their app, you get something out of silicon valley that is almost built for the programmers. It will use hardware that requires everyone to buy a new phone (like NFC). Things like QR codes would be derided as insecure and exploitable. It will comply with consumer protections. In China the app will be made chabudao (go…

> chabudao Chabuduo, but again your spelling is chabuduo OK

haha I write Chinese the way same way I speak Chinese: completely wrong.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#210

Post by ian0 » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:47 AM UTC

Juha wrote: post #122

lucaspiller wrote: post #115

It sounds like one of the reasons why this has grown so quickly - compared to mobile payments in the west - is that you can just sign up and have it instantly. Apple Pay and the like need your bank and the retailer to support it which doesn't happen straight away. In this case it sounds very much like the dream of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. The article mentions that not everyone has access to it though, if you jus…

> And what about privacy? Obviously everything you buy is being fed into a big government database somewhere. Do people in China not care about that (has privacy been eroded so much)? I don't see how it's different from using credit cards or any other digital payment method.

Yep. If anything a wallet is less regulated than the traditional banking system.