Remove United from your flight results • Hacker News Board

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#201

Post by ubernostrum » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:34 AM UTC

jedharris wrote: post #178

johnfn wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing the fact that United did a really bad thing. I definitely agree with that. I'm only arguing the supposition that United is a uniquely bad company.

I'd like to know if United is a uniquely outsourced airline. I think that is quite possible and if it is, then it lends considerable weight to the likelihood that it is a uniquely bad airline. This is the kind of problem a company can get into when the people making the key decisions operate in terms of "metrics" that don't track reality well enough. Plus when a lot of the work is done by outsourced vendors, they pro…

Compared to the other two big US airlines, yes -- United has an earned reputation for slashing mainline service in favor of regional affiliates. People occasionally joked (only half joking) that if previous CEO Jeff Smisek were only legally allowed to, he'd have outsourced long-haul international flights to 50-seat CRJs.

This also played a role in United's frankly abysmal on-time ratings; in order to have enough capacity while moving everything into tiny regional jets, they had to raise the frequency of the flights, which led to logistical clusterfucks at their hubs when they just overloaded the ability of the airport operations to handle that many flights.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#202

Post by nyolfen » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:37 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #68

greenhatman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He got assaulted. That is a case for severe damages, usually.

Sure. Photographers get assaulted too. They don't get huge payouts --you go file charges and the judge issues a sentence, some damages. Usually not a jackpot.

i have no idea what you're referring to, but it sounds like the photographers ought to. what's wrong with pursuing a payout if it also helps to incentivize avoiding future abuses? do you think airlines are run as a charity or something?

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#203

Post by devdoomari » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:37 AM UTC

sitepodmatt wrote: post #10

United screwed up by not having a decent incentive system in place to avoid deplaning people. People have presented many options, including taking a ballpark figure on checkin, or whilst on the airplance a speaker announcement anyone to travel later for $800, wait a minute, $1000, $1200, okay great thanks folks.. That was extremely badly handled and shocking that no process was in place for this - as last minute crew…

woah this is quite in-direct defense for united, as if you're a some PR guy for them...

anyway, if the guy payed for his tickets, doesn't he have the right to stay on his seat as long as he's not a terrorist/criminal?

Also, united should be blamed for 99% of this incident, as it was united that called security to force the guy out - even when they had the chance to offer some other guy more rewards/etc for a smoother process.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#204

Post by sandstrom » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:39 AM UTC

ram_rar wrote: post #8

If I keep dropping airlines for every unpleasant experience, I ll run out of options for flying. I have had bad experiences (not of this magnitude) , but dropping UA from my search list is not a viable option. Its an airline, not a restaurant. Having said that, I do hope UA bleeds through its nose while settlement.

I think one problem is lack of competition + bought politicians (lobbying). This has made them complacent.

Europe and Asia has better airlines: https://www.1843magazine.com/travel/what-the-numbers-say/com...

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#205

Post by mc32 » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:40 AM UTC

bigiain wrote: post #195

mc32 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's usually a reasonable presumption (that lawyers contacted him first) but it's not unquestionable if only because his past history with the legal system. I would prefer restorative justice over punitive justice in this case. If people were not deplaned, another flight would have been delayed/cancelled affecting not one or two people but hundreds. There were jerks all around --from the people who physical…

> If people were not deplaned, another flight would have been delayed/cancelled affecting not one or two people but hundreds. And how does that become David Doa's personal problem? And how are you gonna feel about "restorative justice" when United pay his hospital bills - and then assault one of your family/friends next month, because they know it's cheaper doing that than delaying/canceling flights (or, you know, ge…

It wasn't _his_ problem. But he was the one on whose lap it landed, it could have been someone else. This is not the first time airlines overbook and need to bump someone, nor the first time they had to remove someone --and it's likely not the last nor likely illegal either. I'm not saying he or anyone should "like it" but them's the breaks and those are the rules airlines work with --on occasion they have to bump people. On occasion people make bad decisions and these things come to light.

Most level headed people don't put up a struggle to get off. Most people who are thus inconvenienced or wronged will take it up via normal channels. If I'm asked to deplane, unwarranted as it may be, I'm not getting into fisticuffs --I'll take it up later via other means, and it appears most people in the same situation do the same. Very few people become belligerent. Again, not saying this is the preferred mode to operate, but it's how airlines operate. Maybe an 8 figure fine changes that but my guess is they'll just have more legalese giving them more leeway in bumping passengers. I don't think it's going to change an industry which historically operates on thin margins. Not unless they become "re-regulated" and we get the privilege to pay 2x to 4x current airfare like people did pre-1980s in real dollars.

Here's why I think he was a jerk --the airline, right or wrong was operating from a legal standpoint which includes the ability to take people off a plane (you may debate that) but he did not retaliate in a legal manner --he took personal affront and physically resisted removal. Separately, I think the airline were jerks because they should not have resorted to their legal options when they had not exhausted reasonable monetary options first.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#206

Post by neurotech1 » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:41 AM UTC

selectodude wrote: post #153

redler wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably take a day to arrange, and then coat about $15,000 per flight hour. Not the quickest or most frugal option.

They're flying to Kentucky, not Tokyo. They're not using a Gulfstream G650. $5k/hr max.

If United (Or Republic Airline) flew an Embraer 170 (same as 3411) just for the crew that needed transport to Louisville, the cost would be about $5k for a round trip. The E170 costs about $2500 an hour to operate.

Stupidly, The cost of the likely lawsuits (even from lesser incidents, that didn't involve beaten passengers, just extremely annoyed passengers) often negates any cost saving for the airline.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#207

Post by mc32 » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:45 AM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #202

mc32 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Photographers get assaulted too. They don't get huge payouts --you go file charges and the judge issues a sentence, some damages. Usually not a jackpot.

i have no idea what you're referring to, but it sounds like the photographers ought to. what's wrong with pursuing a payout if it also helps to incentivize avoiding future abuses? do you think airlines are run as a charity or something?

Photographers (some call them paparazzi) who get clocked by people ("celebrities") not wanting their photos taken, legal as it may be. They file a complaint, seek restitution, etc., but don't typically hunt down personal injury lawyers of certain renown to get 7 or 8 figs --which seems to be the consensus.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#208

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:46 AM UTC

hamami wrote: post #182

While I didn't have terrible experience comparable to some recent events, I also want to share mine. Last year when I was flying United I printed my boarding pass from one of the kiosks at the airport, and it assigned me to a seat where there's slightly more legroom, normally I believe these are upgrade seats, but I assumed there's no other seats so it gave me that one. After I and several others boarded the plane, o…

O_O, so let me get this clear—the first agent literally changed your seat assignment on their own and gave you a new boarding pass with a new seat number without telling you anything?

Wow.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#209

Post by nyolfen » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:47 AM UTC

vinay427 wrote: post #147

sixothree wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than once my plane has been late on southwest and every time my connecting flight waited for me to arrive before departing. What a nice way to end a trip.

Between the two clauses I honestly can't tell if you're complimenting or criticizing the airline. In any case, I love the no-hassles baggage policy (checking in bags is far more comfortable assuming they don't get misplaced) and seat selection (especially when traveling alone). The easy to understand frequent flyer program and relatively friendly staff help as well.

a personal anecdote about SW and lost bags -- they put my and my mother's luggage on the wrong flight once a few years ago, and not only did they give us both $250 in credit, they also had a courier drive the bags to her home (an hour from the airport) the next morning. i was very pleasantly surprised.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#210

Post by neurotech1 » Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 5:50 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #199

Mtinie wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hindsight is 20/20. A private plane charter would have been significantly cheaper and no one would have been the wiser.

That is exactly it. Hindsight. In hindsight I'm sure a lot of the people involved would have made different decisions. That's easy, and it's easy for all of us to criticize what they did, given that we have the benefit of hindsight (and a distinct lack of solid information, so the usual outrage machine has taken hold). This was a very rare event: in the majority of cases, they're able to get volunteers to take a late…

A more likely scenario of crew being out of position (or exceeding duty/travel time, and insufficient rest) would most likely result in a cancelled flight, and that would be relatively expensive for the airline.

The cost of involuntarily bumping 4 passengers ($800+ x 4) assuming no further incident, rapidly approached any benefit from not cancelling (or delaying) the morning flight. Total revenue for the regional flight would likely be less than $10,000.