Programmers are most likely to work from home • Hacker News Board

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#201

Post by return0 » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:20 PM UTC

pionar wrote: post #184

return0 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think working from home is superior (for tech/programming work). In terms of work, it's the best way to not only avoid distractions, but also lay out your time in a way that is conducive to completing a project in the way you intended, and to let your ideas be fully implemented. This means projects finish sooner, much sooner than in a 9-5 environment. I believe that, when you know that you cannot escape the office…

> I think working from home is superior (for tech/programming work). I disagree with you, specifically one point. >The office does offer some perks, but they are not related to work itself, they are all about socializing / banter / feeling of being part of a team. That "banter" or "socializing" is work related. I've found that working from home (been doing it 2 years now) has one very big disadvantage - unless the wh…

I understand that, but I believe if more than a few work remotely, the culture of the company would shift to moving important stuff and meetings online.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#202

Post by 67726e » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #69

ensiferum wrote: post #39

I think I'd be utterly depressed if I worked from home. Every day without any human interaction. Plus I really love the clear boundary between work and home. Wouldn't want to pollute my home with work.

> Every day without any human interaction It's the best, I love it. Any human interaction you get is chosen, rather than imposed.

It's going to vary person-to-person. I did it for two years, and it mentally destroyed me. Eventually I was spending every night out getting shitfaced drunk because I couldn't stand another moment alone at home.

I work in an office now. I can work from home a day or two now and again, but it's 8.30 - 4.30 Monday thru Friday in the office for the most part. Don't assume working remote works for everyone simply because it does for you.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#203

Post by always_good » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

meritt wrote: post #33

> I don't want to teach all your shitty college grads humbleMouse's profile: "Mid-Twenties" lol.

Heh, your comment moved them to erase that from their profile.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#204

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #133

CydeWeys wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer's work environment is worth much more to me per year than the entire cost of your home setup thanks to all of the free meals and the gym equipment alone. Just something worth thinking about.

Do those free meals meet everyone's requirements? My office gets pizza or tacos for us on a very frequent basis, which while a nice gesture doesn't fit in with my own diet at all (which often means if I'm at the office, I end up eating my carefully prepared meal while being stared at funny while everyone else chows down on junk food). Consider other dietary options like pork free, gluten free, vegan, IF, etc. Also ju…

I'm at Google, and yes, there are plenty of vegetarian, vegan, gluten-free, kosher, etc., options. It's still impossible to meet everyone's needs, but at least 99% of employee's dietary preferences are taken into account.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#205

Post by mohaine » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

NateDad wrote: post #140

finder83 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe still not a secret, but the dirty part in some companies is that if there are layoffs, they'll lay off the people who are paid the highest and keep the people that they trained.

That has never happened in my experience, and I've been through a lot of layoffs. It's usually the exact opposite. They lay off all the peons and keep the few high level experts. They're a lot harder to replace.

Same here. Order seems to be:

1) Bad contractors, 2) Bad employees, 3) Good contractors, 4) Good employees with Mgt going along the way from bottom to top. Pay doesn't usually seem to be the deciding influence except within the groups.

One of the places I've seen do it the best first moved the few good people off of the worst teams and then just got rid of entire teams at a time.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#206

Post by nojvek » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

cma wrote: post #197

pionar wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think working from home is superior (for tech/programming work). I disagree with you, specifically one point. >The office does offer some perks, but they are not related to work itself, they are all about socializing / banter / feeling of being part of a team. That "banter" or "socializing" is work related. I've found that working from home (been doing it 2 years now) has one very big disadvantage - unless the wh…

Would V8 have been written in an open office environment? https://www.ft.com/content/03775904-177c-11de-8c9d-0000779fd...

Paywall link. What's the summary?

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#207

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #121

CydeWeys wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer's work environment is worth much more to me per year than the entire cost of your home setup thanks to all of the free meals and the gym equipment alone. Just something worth thinking about.

I don't know what bothers me more. People willingly selling their souls to companies or the companies that spend humongous amounts of money to keep their employees away from their homes and lifes...

Why do you think I'm "selling my soul" just because I go into the office and eat the free food they provide? I work normal 40 hour weeks. I'm not being dragged away from my home and my life. You've got an overly cynical take on it. They're just nice perks that the company can provide cheaply at scale, e.g. I'd rather get three free meals per day than the $5,000 it costs my employer to make those meals per employee, because if I were buying those meals out it'd cost more than $5,000 per year.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#208

Post by timmaah » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:25 PM UTC

pionar wrote: post #184

return0 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think working from home is superior (for tech/programming work). In terms of work, it's the best way to not only avoid distractions, but also lay out your time in a way that is conducive to completing a project in the way you intended, and to let your ideas be fully implemented. This means projects finish sooner, much sooner than in a 9-5 environment. I believe that, when you know that you cannot escape the office…

> I think working from home is superior (for tech/programming work). I disagree with you, specifically one point. >The office does offer some perks, but they are not related to work itself, they are all about socializing / banter / feeling of being part of a team. That "banter" or "socializing" is work related. I've found that working from home (been doing it 2 years now) has one very big disadvantage - unless the wh…

I'm the only one at our small company that works remotely. I miss so much of what is going on decision wise.

Any talk of new clients, potential new business, larger future projects are all communicated to me once they are mostly already hashed out. This keeps me from playing a bigger part in the company and thus the work they throw my way is more on the grunt/boring side.

I love working remotely though and I'm not working in the tiny open office they have. I would be interested in seeing what the dynamic is like with a full remote team.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#209

Post by dasil003 » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

humbleMouse wrote: post #34

School-Cotton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really are a top performer, a big part of the justification for your high pay is because you multiply your impact by mentoring more junior employees.

I respectfully disagree. The justification for my high pay is because I integrate complex systems with shitty vendor web service api's and automate the transmission of sensitive data. The work I am doing has a huge impact on profitability of my company - much more than the joke of a 6 figure rate they are paying to keep me around. I avoid being a fulltime employee because I don't want to have some unwritten commitmen…

Sorry, but if your 6-figure rate is a joke, go get a higher rate, or even better, go out and start your own company. If you build your own company you will understand the value that other roles have and get away from the arrogant mentality that good code is the most valuable thing. The fact is, you aren't in a position to evaluate the value that all the other roles are bringing to the company.

There's a reason that very few companies have a strong technical track, and managers tend to get paid more than ICs. It's because managing personalities and orchestrating teams to operate efficiently has a huge magnifying effect on productivity. On a purely technical track, you can have an even bigger impact if you are a highly skilled architect, but only if there are technical challenges of that scope, which is not the case for most companies.

A cognitive trap that programmers can fall into is that their work is the hardest and most valuable because of its exacting nature. Given the details you have to understand and reconcile, it's true that you can't bullshit your way very far as a developer the way that some managers can, but that said, since no one else is probably taking the time to understand your work in great detail, it's very easy to spin a self-serving story of your own superiority. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because you are technical your self-assessment is objective, it is not.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#210

Post by mr_tristan » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:29 PM UTC

Many companies frequently build a hierarchy of "direct reports". That hierarchy really loves having people they oversee being local. It's kind of a cultural thing, but it requires a very, very patient and rational manager to oversee people they can't physically interact with. In my experience, most managers don't fit this bill.

Add to the fact that most of these direct reports are done via a direct 1:1 meeting, most company cultures just really, really want to do critical communication verbally.

I've rarely encountered a company that puts quality written communication at a high priority. The last few I've worked at have these half-assed wiki's (e.g., Confluence) where pages are written poorly and then forgotten about about 15 minutes after the page is updated. And then random email blasts.

It's this focus on verbal instead of written communication that is a blocker for remote work. As a remote employee, if nothing important is clearly written down, it's difficult to be a "self-starter". You can't just research a problem yourself, you frequently need to be handed work. Thus, in most businesses I've found, the remote employees end up in this strange "in house consultant" style role.

I suspect companies where everyone is remote also prioritize written communication.