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Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

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201–210 of 394 posts

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#201
You're targetting espresso over drip. This is good in my books, but I don't know how the US oddity about drip vs espresso will affect your market. Europe and Australia/NZ will likely pose different marketing requirements.

For EU/AU, it seems to me like you want to be competing with the Nespresso market and leveraging the fact that you can produce a similar 'pod' quality (or better) without the machine - basically a convenience approach, perhaps with some price influence. You'll struggle to compete with superior flavour since we understand decent espresso. There's a reason Starbucks has nearly completely collapsed in Australia and it's largely thanks to Italian migrants in the 60s, and enough of Europe knows about Italy that they have a clue about coffee. The secondary advantage is that in AU at least (maybe also EU? my experience of travel there isn't broad enough), a good cafe-made espresso is quite expensive (AUD$5) so you have profit margins on your side too.

For the US, you can't really compete on price and people are more happy to drink rubbish coffee like badly made drip and Starbucks. To this end, in my mind you will need to convince them that the superior flavour is worth it when it is not prohibited by superior expense or effort (ie: going out to a specialist cafe). The evidence is in this thread where people balk at the idea of a $3 'instant' coffee. This is a distinctly different marketing ploy to the above, but I think a one-size-fits-all won't work for you.

I don't really have a lot to add, but that's my gut feel on how you need to go about pitching this. Simply saying 'we can do instant coffee that doesn't suck!' to me doesn't quite capture the subtlties of the problem you're actually solving for consumers, as it doesn't place it in the broader context of how/where/why they consume coffee.

Good luck!

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#202

I work in the coffee industry and saw Sudden pop up last year so was interested in the technique and hacked it out. Freeze dried coffee is already what Folgers does and sell you. This is the more artisanal version of that since the big brands have big factories that can pump out plenty of instant coffee grounds. So this is a ramped up volume play on existing techniques perfected by the doomsday preppers. Youtube sear…

Downvote me to hell, but I think people drink too much coffee (and caffeinated drinks), it's just not necessary and is an addictive substance. I think it's a toxic substance honestly, tires the adrenals and heart out. Anyone else on here who abstains from caffeine?

Uptownfunk, I also severely limit my caffeine intake (right now zero). It's a tool that mitigates fatigue at the expense of anxiety, irritability, and sleep disruption.

Through an anthropologist's lens, caffeine helps adapt unreliable human mental concentration to an industrial/capitalist society. (Just like ritalin and adderall!) See ern's comment regarding "forced to take coffee to keep up with my fellow developers". I've observed that coffee is the most common beverage (after water) which employers freely distribute in the workplace.

This said, many folks prefer a caffeinated existence and don't experience the side effects. If it works out for you, then enjoy it!

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#203

I work in the coffee industry and saw Sudden pop up last year so was interested in the technique and hacked it out. Freeze dried coffee is already what Folgers does and sell you. This is the more artisanal version of that since the big brands have big factories that can pump out plenty of instant coffee grounds. So this is a ramped up volume play on existing techniques perfected by the doomsday preppers. Youtube sear…

I set the limit at 0.50 per Keurig pod and my wife has decreed that we will brew pots of coffee in our new digs.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#204
I would keep a stash of this for when I get up early and want a cup while I set down to work. I can't run my grinder or espresso machine because it wakes up the kids.

I do drink normal instant coffee in those desperate times, but I would very much enjoy a high quality alternative.

Not interested in a subscription though, it's bad enough that every piece of software I use has moved to a monthly model without it taking over my physical world too. You do your thing, but I'll be checking back periodically to see if you've started selling individual boxes.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#205
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy to answer whatever questions we can disclose! Thanks for starting the thread. It's somewhere in the middle to be honest. We did not invent freeze dried coffee - it's been around for over a century. However, it is quite difficult to make it work at-scale in a way that's profitable/sustainable, and that still tastes good. I have a pretty extensive background in operations, manufacturing, & tech and I had to pull…

Who is your target? If people want good tasting coffee, like a connoisseur, one would like the option of selecting the type of bean, where it is sourced from, how it's roasted, how it's ground, how it's brewed etc. People even vehemently oppose and stand by brewing methods, which to an ordinary person who doesn't care about coffee, wouldn't care about. And if someone is buying instant coffee anyways, I doubt they car…

+1 for RussianCow's comment.

Our target customer is the average person who goes to Philz, Blue Bottle, Stumptown as well as Starbucks. These people aren't really buying instant coffee - they spend $2-10 on coffee per day. Some of them buy 2 x $5 latte drinks at a cafe. 100% of these people drink their coffee for the taste (although they have different taste preferences). The average person who goes to Blue Bottle daily actually doesn't know much about the beans, where it's sourced, etc. This is a big misconception that we uncovered last May. These people are Blue Bottle loyalists who love the brand, but they really just want a good cup of coffee that makes them feel good. They don't care what country it came from and they don't really know what light roast vs dark roast is.

This is actually a HUGE market of people. The middle is much larger than the fringes.

Btw, I've said this in other places on the thread - we completely love people who are super into coffee and I still think we make a good product for those really into it, but I just want to highlight the large number of people in the middle who we often forget to talk about.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is your target? If people want good tasting coffee, like a connoisseur, one would like the option of selecting the type of bean, where it is sourced from, how it's roasted, how it's ground, how it's brewed etc. People even vehemently oppose and stand by brewing methods, which to an ordinary person who doesn't care about coffee, wouldn't care about. And if someone is buying instant coffee anyways, I doubt they car…

I don't have any evidence to support this other than anecdotes, but I would bet there is a much larger group in the middle than you imply. Plenty of people (myself included) appreciate good coffee without being fanatical about it. If you can offer the same taste as pourover without the work, I think you can capture quite a significant portion of the market. But then again, I could be overestimating that based on my o…

I'm in this portion of the market, and as such, I've subscribed to try it out.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#207
As a regular instant drinker-- I wish you luck.

My go to instant is Cafe Bustelo, cheap, woody, strong and 17¢ a cup when it's on sale.

At your price, Sudden occupies an interesting niche, but I think it will do fine given how massive the coffee market is!

Nothing beats instant for convenience, it's a lot easier to find a hot water than a coffee machine. And slips in your pocket like grinders and a bag o' beans doesn't.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#208
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy to answer whatever questions we can disclose! Thanks for starting the thread. It's somewhere in the middle to be honest. We did not invent freeze dried coffee - it's been around for over a century. However, it is quite difficult to make it work at-scale in a way that's profitable/sustainable, and that still tastes good. I have a pretty extensive background in operations, manufacturing, & tech and I had to pull…

Define 'tastes good/bad'

So first off, taste is a subjective thing, but generally things that we classify as tasting good internally: - smooth/ juicy taste - naturally sweet without sugar - has a good fragrance

Things that taste bad in coffee might be: - dries out your mouth - watery/ tasteless - really bitter - tastes like wood - smokey/ burnt

FYI, it's hard to pick up on these taste characteristics if you drink coffee with cream and sugar, so if you want to do a taste test, try it black and at a warm (not hot) temperature.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#209
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy to answer whatever questions we can disclose! Thanks for starting the thread. It's somewhere in the middle to be honest. We did not invent freeze dried coffee - it's been around for over a century. However, it is quite difficult to make it work at-scale in a way that's profitable/sustainable, and that still tastes good. I have a pretty extensive background in operations, manufacturing, & tech and I had to pull…

Define 'tastes good/bad'

So first off, taste is a subjective thing, but generally things that we classify as tasting good internally: - smooth/ juicy taste - naturally sweet without sugar - has a good fragrance

Things that taste bad in coffee might be: - dries out your mouth - watery/ tasteless - really bitter - tastes like wood - smokey/ burnt

FYI, it's hard to pick up on these taste characteristics if you drink coffee with cream and sugar, so if you want to do a taste test, try it black and at a warm (not hot) temperature.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#210
post #3

I'd love to try this, but minimum $19/mo subscription as the only "Buy Now" option?

Second this - I use instant coffee for hiking, if they add a way to order as-needed I'd totally be game to try this instead of the Nescafe poison I start my wilderness mornings with :)
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