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H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

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Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#201

Post by bryondowd »

latimer wrote: post #160
berberous wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not used CreditKarma's tax product, but I've heard folks say that it calculates some things incorrectly. I think that's understandable for a brand new product, but I'd be cautious about using it this year if you don't (1) have a very simple return, (2) check their work against the IRS forms/instructions and/or (3) check against another product. (For those who don't want to give TurboTax or H&R money, I've been…

I haven't used CreditKarma's tax product either so I can't speak to its accuracy, but from my understanding they didn't build their own product, they acquired a company called AFJC which has been in the online tax space for a while.

I tried both CreditKarma and TurboTax this year.

Credit Karma missed some things in my NJ state return that would have cost me a couple hundred dollars. There didn't appear to be any way for me to manually include a correction, so I ended up filing with TurboTax (free version).

This wasn't even a particularly esoteric exemption, I expect it would have come up with anyone who worked for two different companies in the same year. Aside from that, I'm a very standard case.

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/njit16.shtml

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#202

Post by larrywright »

danielweber wrote: post #143
berberous wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not used CreditKarma's tax product, but I've heard folks say that it calculates some things incorrectly. I think that's understandable for a brand new product, but I'd be cautious about using it this year if you don't (1) have a very simple return, (2) check their work against the IRS forms/instructions and/or (3) check against another product. (For those who don't want to give TurboTax or H&R money, I've been…

TurboTax found several thousand dollars for me in a fairly complicated tax situation that I was completely not expecting and would never have realized on my own. Even some CPAs I've talked to have said "oh, really?" They've bought some tremendous goodwill from me with that. I'm probably sticking with them forever.

Quite a few accountants that I know use TurboTax to file for their customers.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#203

Post by username223 »

bkohlmann wrote: post #49

While I am against Intuits efforts, what astounds me most is how LITTLE money is spent lobbying. A few million over a year is peanuts compared to the broader market opportunity. And the implication that Congresspeople are bought off by sums as low as "$32,000" since 2008 seems unlikely. Intuit and H&R may simply contribute to those they know already support their agenda.

As recently as 2006, Duke Cunningham was offering 10s of millions of dollars in defense contracts in exchange for a boat and a couple hundred thousand in cash:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham#Allegations

That's guaranteed money, not just "influence." If you have enough money to play, Congressmen offer enormous returns.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#204

Post by jakelazaroff »

John23832 wrote: post #144
jakelazaroff wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then is your position that businesses should not be expected to behave ethically, but politicians should? That's a pretty weird line to draw. There's no reason we shouldn't expect all members of society to adhere to a generally agreed-upon code of ethics, even if parts of that code shouldn't be made into law.

In a perfect society, everyone would act ethically. That isn't true sadly. We have to often force people to be ethical. We force businesses into ethics through law. We can't guilt trip a business. We can however expect ethics/morality from politicians because they are people. And really, they are elected into their positions because of their ethics.

> We can't guilt trip a business.

Sure we can. We can complain to them, boycott them, post stories on HN so other people know they're unethical, etc.

> We can however expect ethics/morality from politicians because they are people.

Businesses are just groups of people. A business behaves ethically only if the people who make it up behave ethically. We don't lose the ability to criticize them just because they're acting as a group.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#205

Post by sedachv »

gpawl wrote: post #174
mikeash wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The work is already being done. Try putting some incorrect numbers into your tax return this year. Sometime after you file, you'll probably get a letter informing you of the mistake, telling you how much your actual tax liability differs from what you filed, and either a check or a bill for the difference.

IRS checks your math and makes sure all the reports (your copy vs employer/bank/vendor copy) match. They won't tell you which deductions you are supposed to take.

> They won't tell you which deductions you are supposed to take.

They will for the most basic personal deductions. I have gotten a correction on a 1040EZ where my deduction was corrected upwards and the refund increased. It is impossible for the IRS or your tax preparer to know things like what kind of automobile deductions you can take for your sole-proprietorship business. This is an impossible problem to solve - every change to the deductions allowed is going to make some people pay taxes on what should be business expenses/losses and/or allow other people to claim legal-but-bogus or just plain fraudulent deductions.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#206

Post by AtticusTheGreat »

eli wrote: post #109
AtticusTheGreat wrote: post #60

I file my taxes for free, easily, by printing out the forms at home and doing them by hand on paper. The only cost to me is for the envelopes and postage. I've done some pretty complex filings over the years, and have built up the knowledge I need to do it well. Also, if I make a mistake the government is usually pretty good about letting me know and I either cut them a check for the difference or they cut me a check…

As someone who does their own taxes, aren't you in favor of the IRS pre-filling your forms with the information they already know?

Yeah absolutely. I'd love a free online solution from the government as it would make my life easier. So far, I haven't been willing to pay out to Intuit or HRBlock for a slight time/convenience savings.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#207

Post by jakelazaroff »

senior_james wrote: post #162
jakelazaroff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like you couldn't still go to Intuit or H&R Block if you didn't trust the IRS. There's literally no downside to the government providing this service.

Like I said, the downside is that most people are lazy and will just fill out the form and send it in because they don't want to deal with it or think about it. You can't get most people to do simple math.

Right now, people are lazy and pay Intuit or H&R Block because they don't want to deal with it or think about it. How does allowing people to use a free tax return prefilled by the government make this worse?

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#208

Post by BrandonM »

jandrese wrote: post #180
BrandonM wrote: post #156

For anyone who can program (including spreadsheets!), it's not all that hard to file your own taxes the old-fashioned way. To do it digitally, just use https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ and start with a 1040. Read each line carefully and go from there. The IRS has tons of great resources, and you can even call them up. Each form has a companion instruction booklet (online PDF), and sometimes those instructions r…

> it's not all that hard to file your own taxes the old-fashioned way > Each time, it has taken me a full 12-16 hours You have a strange definition of "not that hard". This is exactly my experience trying to do it the old fashioned way. The IRS's documentation is written in accountant speak so deciphering what each means is an effort and all of the time it takes adds up. Who else uses the word "schedule" to mean "for…

> You have a strange definition of "not that hard".

That's fair, but by-far the hardest thing about filing taxes for us has been prorating our income based on how long we lived in each part-year municipality. Adding to that, some cities/states give you a credit on the taxes, some deduct from the income, and yet others multiply by the number of business days you were a resident. If it was just a matter of filing a 1040, itemizing deductions, and transferring that same info to state/city taxes, it would probably take me 3-4 hours.

I agree that your situation sounds difficult, but I doubt that TurboTax is really making that easier. You likely need to seek out a true tax preparer/accountant. My comment was specifically targeted at those who are using DIY online software... It's just honestly not that much harder to use forms. (I could have been clearer about who my comment applied to.)

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#209

Post by pkrawczykowski »

berberous wrote: post #131
naftaliharris wrote: post #121

I'm surprised the article and comments haven't mentioned CreditKarma's tax solution yet, which is (actually) free. [1] Presumably their strategy is to take the users and data they get from offering free tax filing and use them to advertise lending products. I think that's a sustainable and politically feasible way to get free tax filing, actually; I expect that in ~5 years Credit Karma will have eaten a big part of T…

I have not used CreditKarma's tax product, but I've heard folks say that it calculates some things incorrectly. I think that's understandable for a brand new product, but I'd be cautious about using it this year if you don't (1) have a very simple return, (2) check their work against the IRS forms/instructions and/or (3) check against another product. (For those who don't want to give TurboTax or H&R money, I've been…

I used their software this year as some market research. It calculated the same return as turbo tax. I will say that the returns we used were pretty simple. While not the solution for everyone I was impressed with the usability of the software.

Edit: the state returns were for Illinois if that makes a difference.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#210

Post by mtokunaga »

I am not sure if it is true still, but I remember "regular" workers in Japan do not have to file tax. They are deducted from their pays and that's it. I think that will similarly apply to a very large number of population.

I also never liked really to use accountants, as they basically ask the same questions that I have to collect myself. Might as well use an online tool. Especially if most of the "W"s are already at IRS/FRB why do I even have to send the copies of them again. Why don't they just give me the partially filed XML/JSON to me to finish it off.

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