By the time he could actually drill all of these tunnels, won't traffic/gridlock be a moot point. By the time it takes him to dig all these tunnels (10-15 years?) everyone will have self driving cars, ones that can network and move around trouble spots, that don't have to wait for stoplights, that don't randomly slam on the brakes causing an aberration of slow traffic in the middle of an otherwise steady stream?
Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
201–210 of 278 posts
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#202Ok, so one thing I've noticed reading the 120 comments in this thread and the article is that literally nobody knows anything about boring, or tunnels. Musk knows nothing, he put someone in charge who knows nothing, the reporter knows nothing, and the commenters here even admit they are completely guessing and know nothing about boring/tunnels. I definitely don't know anything about tunnels. It's a joke that came to…
I'm not surprised that people who design boring machines or design tunnels are not regular readers or commentators here on HN :-). Like Musk, I've felt that tunneling is under utilized (unfortunately I don't have the resources he has to bring to bear on it) but there is a wealth of information out there on the current state of tunneling. Three interesting projects that have a number of 'explainers' and various papers…
I design both boring machines and tunnels and am a regular reader on HN.
I have worked on tunnels ranging from the smallest to the largest, rock to soil, and all forms of construction.
I have stopped commenting on any tunnel related Elon topic due to people refusing to believe my experience and expertise when it does not align with what Elon Musk and his team of "experts" have said or published in their desk studies.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#203So how is he planning on paying for all the TBM work involved? Make it a private toll road?
That will totally work.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not surprised that people who design boring machines or design tunnels are not regular readers or commentators here on HN :-). Like Musk, I've felt that tunneling is under utilized (unfortunately I don't have the resources he has to bring to bear on it) but there is a wealth of information out there on the current state of tunneling. Three interesting projects that have a number of 'explainers' and various papers…
I design both boring machines and tunnels and am a regular reader on HN. I have worked on tunnels ranging from the smallest to the largest, rock to soil, and all forms of construction. I have stopped commenting on any tunnel related Elon topic due to people refusing to believe my experience and expertise when it does not align with what Elon Musk and his team of "experts" have said or published in their desk studies.
What's the going rate for a used tunnel boring machine?
EDIT:
"New machines normally cost at least $15 million, but a decade of frantic subway construction in China has created a glut, and lightly used models can be had for 90 percent off sticker."
I could Kickstart a tunnel boring machine purchase. What a time to be alive.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#205Ok, so one thing I've noticed reading the 120 comments in this thread and the article is that literally nobody knows anything about boring, or tunnels. Musk knows nothing, he put someone in charge who knows nothing, the reporter knows nothing, and the commenters here even admit they are completely guessing and know nothing about boring/tunnels. I definitely don't know anything about tunnels. It's a joke that came to…
« Is there enough boreable space under our cities that this is doable? I know Musk says he wants to go deep, but even at very deep depths you run into problems of sand, boulders, geography, etc, etc. » Certainly out here in a much more karst [1] part of the country (I'm in Kentucky specifically) there's just about no way, from what I read, to bore under our cities without threatening the geologic stability of just ab…
If you're already on top of caverns, the tunnels might actually be able to stabilize and reinforce the ground. In theory... the actual digging would undoubtedly be complicated by caverns.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've never had any issues with Amtrak's service. People forget that they're second-class citizens to freight on the track, so they're usually not to blame for being late and they're held back by the infrastructure, which is designed, owned, and maintained by freight companies. I know it's accepted in the HN community to be down on government monopolies, but a quick glance at the privatization disaster of British Rail…
I'm not at all discounting your point, but isn't Japan's rail system made up of various private rail companies? Or are those quasi governmental?
It's "all of the above". Private, public, and quasi-governmental (public-private partnerships). The "public" side can be at any level: national, prefectural, municipal, etc.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've never had any issues with Amtrak's service. People forget that they're second-class citizens to freight on the track, so they're usually not to blame for being late and they're held back by the infrastructure, which is designed, owned, and maintained by freight companies. I know it's accepted in the HN community to be down on government monopolies, but a quick glance at the privatization disaster of British Rail…
Say what you will about BR privatization, but this[0] goes from London to Manchester in 2 hours (takes about 3 by road if you really push it on the M6 toll and M40). They also serve (overpriced) beer. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_390
The British government still owns the rails and prioritizes passenger service, though, unlike the US. NR bought it back after Railtrack folded, if memory serves.
If Amtrak owned the rails and leased to freight, instead of the other way round, I imagine it'd have a similar level of service. As things stand, there's zero incentive for the track owners (freight companies) to update the lines for speeds higher than they can cheaply ship at.
FWIW, I live in Croatia and even we have tilting trains these days. It's downright embarrassing that the US is so far behind.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US can easily afford to maintain it's infrastructure. It would make money in doing so. Expense is not the reason the US has infrastructure problems.
Yes and no. The US is rich enough to where, yes, we could raise taxes and fund infrastructure better. At the same time, some forms of infrastructure have been over-built. We've demonstrated a massive preference for (wide) roads over walking/biking/transit, and it turns out supporting mostly single-occupancy vehicles as the default transportation mode is extremely expensive. For example, take this blog post analyzing…
> The US is rich enough to where, yes, we could raise taxes and fund infrastructure better.
It isn't necessary to raise taxes; reducing military spending would more than suffice.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
« Is there enough boreable space under our cities that this is doable? I know Musk says he wants to go deep, but even at very deep depths you run into problems of sand, boulders, geography, etc, etc. » Certainly out here in a much more karst [1] part of the country (I'm in Kentucky specifically) there's just about no way, from what I read, to bore under our cities without threatening the geologic stability of just ab…
If you're already on top of caverns, the tunnels might actually be able to stabilize and reinforce the ground. In theory... the actual digging would undoubtedly be complicated by caverns.
It is just unfortunate that the caverns naturally created by water erosion so rarely correspond to interesting or useful transportation corridors. :)
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#210I thought the current thinking was that building more roads means that there will be more roads to use, and therefore more cars on the road. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand
There has to be a ceiling to how much demand can be induced.