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India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

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Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#201

Post by ekianjo »

greggman wrote: post #142
Kluny wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was this scene in Mad Men where Don Draper, Betty Draper and the kids go out for a picnic in the new family car. They eat lunch in a grassy field, then when they're done, they pack up their basket and blanket, leaving the beer cans, food wrappers, empty bottles, plastic cutlery, and chicken bones scattered on the grass. That scene shocked and horrified me more than all the sexism, racism, and homophobia combine…

That still happens in America. See pictures of Washington DC the day after 4th of July. Or Golden Gate Park in SF after a big festival. So many people leave their trash looks it like a dump. Compare to say Cherry Blossom watching in Japan where a large park will be entirely covered in people but when it's over they will have all cleaned it up. It's a cultural issue. I have no idea how to influence western cultures to…

Japan is very dirty too. Right after fireworks in summer you are basically walking on garbage on the way back. Go to the mount Fuji for a hike and you will see mountains of trash on the hiking trails. its only clean because they clean a lot. not because people dont throw stuff.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#202

Post by chrisbennet »

all_usernames wrote: post #185
J-dawg wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is utterly bizarre. This stuff angers and confuses me in equal measure. It's like a complete refusal to participate in society, just the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you. How do these people behave elsewhere in their lives? One example I keep seeing is people who buy a pack of cigarettes, rip off the plastic film covering and just drop it on the floor. It sends me into a silent rage ev…

If you've spent your whole life feeling victimized by society then you do whatever little things you can to give a big middle finger back. If you're a Black single mom that has to work two jobs to get by, maybe it's easy for you to justify throwing your McDonald's wrappers on the parking lot ground.

I have a different theory: I call it the "raised by wolves theory". If a person doesn't have the benefit of good parenting/good examples, they grow up to be less socialized.

The single mom in your example may have had little parenting because her mom was working 3 jobs perhaps.

Anyone else remember the "don't litter" public service announcement on TV with a crying Indian?

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#203

Post by buzzybee »

hollander wrote: post #193
greggman wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still happens in America. See pictures of Washington DC the day after 4th of July. Or Golden Gate Park in SF after a big festival. So many people leave their trash looks it like a dump. Compare to say Cherry Blossom watching in Japan where a large park will be entirely covered in people but when it's over they will have all cleaned it up. It's a cultural issue. I have no idea how to influence western cultures to…

With big festivals with thousands of people gathering in park or square, you can expect this in Europe. Problem is that you buy a drink in a plastic cup or bottle, maybe a sandwhich or fries with it, and you need to dispose of the plastic or paper. Where do you leave it? There simply are not enough trash cans around or nearby. In a big crowded place it's not easy to move around, you can get lost etc. So people throw…

I remember noticing a more deliberate approach to trash in European cities when I visited. Not just throwing it anywhere but setting used cans etc. in the corner, out of the way.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#204

Post by martin-adams »

Kluny wrote: post #111
WalterBright wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father told me that American highways used to be lined with trash until it was made illegal to throw trash out the window.

There was this scene in Mad Men where Don Draper, Betty Draper and the kids go out for a picnic in the new family car. They eat lunch in a grassy field, then when they're done, they pack up their basket and blanket, leaving the beer cans, food wrappers, empty bottles, plastic cutlery, and chicken bones scattered on the grass. That scene shocked and horrified me more than all the sexism, racism, and homophobia combine…

Yep, I was totally shocked when I saw it. If anyone is curious of the scene -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhcKuMjvcCk

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#205

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

J-dawg wrote: post #198
all_usernames wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've spent your whole life feeling victimized by society then you do whatever little things you can to give a big middle finger back. If you're a Black single mom that has to work two jobs to get by, maybe it's easy for you to justify throwing your McDonald's wrappers on the parking lot ground.

This is an interesting way of looking at it. I wonder if this really is the psychology of people who do stuff like this. If this is the case, it would be interesting to find out whether there is some correlation between wealth inequality and rates of littering.

A counter point would be all the smoking middle class people I see everyday that throw their butts on the ground.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#206

Post by mercer »

J-dawg wrote: post #175
mgkimsal wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 weeks ago on my way to work, I watched a guy pull off to the side of the road. He opened his car door, and just dumped trash out - a few small bags of trash. He had just driven past a gas station and convenience store - both with publicly accessible trash cans to throw stuff away - you don't even have to get out of your car. It's a bizarre mindset some people have - let me drive past the driver-accessible trash can…

It is utterly bizarre. This stuff angers and confuses me in equal measure. It's like a complete refusal to participate in society, just the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you. How do these people behave elsewhere in their lives? One example I keep seeing is people who buy a pack of cigarettes, rip off the plastic film covering and just drop it on the floor. It sends me into a silent rage ev…

I don't think you can neatly separate people by their behavior in this manner, in general, but also in particular when it comes to 'automatic', frequent behavior like disposing of trash. People are irrational.

Most smokers I know will carefully separate their trash and walk hundreds of meters to put everything in the right bin... and yet dispose of their cigarettes all over the place. To my shame I have to admit I was one of those people. Somehow the inconsistency just didn't cross my mind. So many other thoughts took precedence. I'm not saying that this is an excuse, mind.

I do understand the anger and frustration, but I think it's both fairer and more productive to assume that people are not doing these things to intentionally cause harm, and that they might well be upstanding citizens in other areas of life.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#207

Post by ionised »

all_usernames wrote: post #187
mgkimsal wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 weeks ago on my way to work, I watched a guy pull off to the side of the road. He opened his car door, and just dumped trash out - a few small bags of trash. He had just driven past a gas station and convenience store - both with publicly accessible trash cans to throw stuff away - you don't even have to get out of your car. It's a bizarre mindset some people have - let me drive past the driver-accessible trash can…

There's absolutely no visible consequence of leaving your trash in the park in a big city. The city workers will be by later that day to clean it up, or more likely in San Francisco where I live, scavengers will pick it up for recycling within minutes. Out of sight, out of mind. And why not? We certainly pay enough taxes to support those services.

Please tell me this a troll.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#208

Post by ginko »

buzzybee wrote: post #203
hollander wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With big festivals with thousands of people gathering in park or square, you can expect this in Europe. Problem is that you buy a drink in a plastic cup or bottle, maybe a sandwhich or fries with it, and you need to dispose of the plastic or paper. Where do you leave it? There simply are not enough trash cans around or nearby. In a big crowded place it's not easy to move around, you can get lost etc. So people throw…

I remember noticing a more deliberate approach to trash in European cities when I visited. Not just throwing it anywhere but setting used cans etc. in the corner, out of the way.

There's a deposit on cans and bottles in many places in Europe, so they're left where homeless people may find them.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#209

Post by minusSeven »

vidyesh wrote: post #177
wallace_f wrote: post #125

The economist inside me says it would be better to tax disposable plastic. The tax could cover the cost to clean up the litter. That would create jobs in three ways: 1) plastic clean-up jobs, 2) businesses and economic activity that desperately need disposable plastic can still possibly survive, and ) jobs making disposable plastic. Anyways, it's a lot better than taxing things we all agree we want more of. Like jobs…

To be honest I hate this economic idea of enforcing a ban via adding tax to it. This ideology shows the lack of understanding of the disparity in income in India. The middle class and below are the most affected and they face the most brunt of all this. The same goes with how the govt. keeps adding tax on tobacco and its products every year. Forcing people to stop smoking by not allowing them to buy despite allowing…

Dunno I am all for tobacco being expensive. Soon most poor people will no longer be able to afford them. Which is a good thing to me.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#210

Post by pbhjpbhj »

ionised wrote: post #207
all_usernames wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely no visible consequence of leaving your trash in the park in a big city. The city workers will be by later that day to clean it up, or more likely in San Francisco where I live, scavengers will pick it up for recycling within minutes. Out of sight, out of mind. And why not? We certainly pay enough taxes to support those services.

Please tell me this a troll.

I think that is probably not an uncommon mindset.
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