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Welcome, ACLU

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Re: Welcome, ACLU

#201

Post by criddell »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

> Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Why weren't we funding the ACLU to help these people?

What answer are you looking for?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#202

Post by urbanj »

muninn_ wrote: post #158
becarefulyo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument is that if you didn't do what was right before, you shouldn't do what's right now?

The other problems still exist and in my opinion are far worse. My argument is that we should prioritize problems like those over the current outcry.

Why are you posting on here instead of getting out and doing something then?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#203

Post by maxerickson »

jacquesm wrote: post #124
wtvanhest wrote: post #3

I remember when HN did not have a political agenda. Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups. Now its become a highly political message board

> I remember when HN did not have a political agenda. Discussing politics is not the same as having an agenda. > Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups. I don't recall such a time and I've been here quite long. > Now its become a highly political message board This is most likely a reaction to real world developments involving a large number of HN participants. Just like HN isn't a San Francisco local…

It's also the case that not wanting to have political discussions is itself a political agenda.

It might not be a secret or pernicious agenda, but it seems people forget what agenda means.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#204

Post by gepoch »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #69
actsasbuffoon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new product is called "civil liberties." I signed up for their mailing list. I hope I get invited to the beta!

I have been using mine for decades and they're truly excellent. 10/10, would recommend. I really hope they continue to kick out more good products.

I got some when I launched, but I haven't really found a use for them. Sad to see so many products sharing the fate of the Apple watch.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#205

Post by tghw »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #166

I used to be an ACLU supporter, but stopped after their main objectives switched to more of what I describe as matters of feelings , E.g., whether a man who identifies as a women can use a women's bathroom in Georgia, or whether the term man or women can ever be used at all. In my opinion most the ACLU LGBT agenda has been a useless war on words , yet it's taking on a greater and greater importance in the organizatio…

That's hardly their main focus. Go to https://www.aclu.org/ and click Issues. LGBT Rights are just one of 18 top level issues (many broken down into many more related issues).

I love the EFF, but they don't cover voting rights, disability rights, immigration rights, racial justice, etc.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#206

Post by HeavenBanned »

muninn_ wrote: post #143
phillmv wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even have to go that far; half the people on these boards step over a homeless person to get to work every morning. >Why weren't we funding the ACLU to help these people? Well, I think that's easy to answer. People care more about causes when it affects them personally. For better or for worse, few of us are strict utilitarian maximizers. I haven't quite settled how I think about it, myself.

> You don't even have to go that far; half the people on these boards step over a homeless person to get to work every morning. This is a spot on comment.

>half the people on these boards step over a homeless person to get to work every morning.

But don't you think half the people on these boards would also support a vast overhaul of the tax system that prioritizes the military/war over services for the homeless? Currently 60+% of our taxes go towards the military. That's unbelievable. Why not chop that in half and redirect it towards welfare services? Or is that too hard? What possibly can 1 X HN-user do when passing said homeless person? Create a homeless shelter? OR: better to demand the government to stop _squandering_ the thousands in taxes he gives a year and to redirect it to the poor man she/has passes every weekday morning?

I think the issue is more complex than you make it out to be, IMHO.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#207

Post by ssully »

nopcode wrote: post #72
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

I share your sentiment. It seems to me (I'm European) that bashing Trump is just a fancy, hipster thing to do.

I have no idea how supporting the ACLU or the ACLU's actions this weekend could ever be considered Trump bashing or 'hipster'.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#208

Post by [deleted] »

akras14 wrote: post #173
phillmv wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even have to go that far; half the people on these boards step over a homeless person to get to work every morning. >Why weren't we funding the ACLU to help these people? Well, I think that's easy to answer. People care more about causes when it affects them personally. For better or for worse, few of us are strict utilitarian maximizers. I haven't quite settled how I think about it, myself.

100% - conservative in US means bugging homeless people to get away, vs liberal in US means letting homeless people rot on the street in peace. As a Russian saying goes, "it's easy to notice a little chip in someone else's eye, but you won't even notice a log in your own".

[deleted]

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#210

Post by philipov »

laurent123456 wrote: post #97
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

This logic (people should do nothing today because they did nothing yesterday) doesn't make any sense, and I don't get why it keeps coming up every time something related to Trump's policy comes up.

I think that's not an accurate portrayal of their position. They're not saying one should continue doing nothing, they're instead trying to be gatekeepers of virtue. They're saying "You shouldn't get to have good publicity from this when it's convenient for you."

Which is open to a completely different criticism, but is emphatically not saying people should continue doing nothing.

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