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The Problem with AMP

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Re: The Problem with AMP

#201

Post by sametmax »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #194
wheelerwj wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is abusing its powers. They are a business, doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. It's up to us to find a way to kill google and take back our internet. Edit, i love the downvotes for this. Google is legally required to act in their shareholders best interests. You all should understand fiduciary duty. They are building long term value for a massive (and growing) customer segment at the expense o…

You're right, but that point isn't relevant. What you're giving is an explanation, not an excuse. Nobody is incredulous at Google's motivations (money). We're just not satisfied with it. Before you can solve a problem, you must identify it clearly. That's what we're doing here. Saying "yeah but it's only logical" isn't the point. Look: > It's up to us to find a way to kill google and take back our internet. You mean,…

But we don't need an excuse. However the explanation seems necessary given that:

- we saw it happen once;

- we said it would happened again;

- we said how;

- we said why;

- and it happened again.

And apparently nobody gives a damn. People are still trying to get short term gains by adapting to Google's will and wrecking our industry, efficiently sawing the branch we are all seating on.

So yeah, we need to give the explanation. Again. And again. Until people hear it.

We are responsible of the situation.

Not Google. Before Google there was others like MS, and after they will be others. It's like a disease. You don't blame diseases, it's very useless, you explain, and you act.

Yes, your site will not make as much money. But for God sake, it's the same rational for green energy, criminal prevention and the like. You pay NOW because you understand that it's necessary on the long run.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#202

Post by wheelerwj »

jshen wrote: post #87
paradite wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah I didn't know this. I run a WordPress blog. From the documentations of Google and WordPress AMP plugins, I have always thought that the user will be directed to "originalurl/amp" on my domain when they click on the Google link on their phone. Now that I see it's a Google domain, this is really weird.

It's not an AMP thing per se, it's how Google handles AMP in search results.

No, its explicitly an AMP thing. Google serves the user a cached version of your page directly from its servers, hence the google.com/amp/ url

Re: The Problem with AMP

#203

Post by Philipp__ »

AMP made me switch to DuckDuckGO on my iPhone as default search engine. Day 5, and so far I am surprised how well it works! I might switch on my computers too... Google just went too far with AMP in my opinion, pure abuse of power. Reminds me of something that would Facebook do, where they push changes down the consumers throat, but they aren't aware of their dependency on users (but most people don't care, bitch and whine about something that they do not like and don't sanction the product/company).

Re: The Problem with AMP

#204

Post by vog »

sametmax wrote: post #201
nothrabannosir wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but that point isn't relevant. What you're giving is an explanation, not an excuse. Nobody is incredulous at Google's motivations (money). We're just not satisfied with it. Before you can solve a problem, you must identify it clearly. That's what we're doing here. Saying "yeah but it's only logical" isn't the point. Look: > It's up to us to find a way to kill google and take back our internet. You mean,…

But we don't need an excuse. However the explanation seems necessary given that: - we saw it happen once; - we said it would happened again; - we said how; - we said why; - and it happened again. And apparently nobody gives a damn. People are still trying to get short term gains by adapting to Google's will and wrecking our industry, efficiently sawing the branch we are all seating on. So yeah, we need to give the ex…

> Before Google there was others like MS, and after they will be others

MS had their cases in court where they had to pay a lot of money for violating laws. Maybe it's time for Google to go through the same phase.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#205

Post by tyfon »

I am always confused by this topic.

Having browsed the web via mobile for several years with chrome, I have yet to encounter an AMP page. Do I have to enable something or is this region specific? I live in Norway if that matters.

Six months ago I switched my mobile browser from chrome to firefox but I still se nothing (nor the bar with the X everyone are talking about).

Re: The Problem with AMP

#206

Post by lmm »

rashkov wrote: post #11
freyir wrote: post #6

AMP is one of the most frustrating experiences I've had with Google. the fact that it's foisted on users, with no option to disable it, makes it borderline infuriating. If you're stuck on an AMP page in your mobile browser, you can click on the browser's "Request desktop site" option to load the full page.

I get the frustration, but mobile sites in general also have this problem. "Request desktop site" should be a more prominent feature, at least in safari which is what I'm familiar with. It's quite buried unfortunately and I think that more non-techies would benefit from knowing about it.

Mobile web browsers should just never allow a site to disable zoom. That would fix the main thing I end up requesting desktop site for.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#207

Post by lmm »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #158

I don't like AMP, and I very glad there is now some push back against Google's implementation of it. Fast pages are great, but I suppose I'm missing the background on why it was necessary to do this, when anybody who can implement AMP could presumably have implemented "lightweight non bloated pages" without using it. It's bad enough that I've had to switch to using Bing on mobile, despite the worse results, and I'm a…

I've also switched to Bing on my phone. I figure that's the only thing that has a chance of making Google notice.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#208

Post by Fnoord »

wheelerwj wrote: post #177
joelthelion wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are a business, doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Violating anti-trust laws?

I'm no google fanboy, but they haven't been convicted of violating any antitrust laws here in the US. Edit: Again with downvotes. Have I made an inaccurate statement?

FYI: Although I suppose everyone every once in a while is surprised about the way their posts are moderated on HN and other websites (if they notice, that is) it is annoying when people complain about downvoting. I just automatically downvote that.

Sometimes what you state just isn't popular for the crowd who reads it and/or moderates it. Doesn't mean you are right or wrong. Just take a deep breath and give it a rest.

EDIT: The guidelines say: "Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html hence, nope, I won't change that unless someone who works for HN directs me to.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#209

Post by smcl »

wheelerwj wrote: post #173
tobltobs wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is why a company like Google is moving with glacier style speed. When they will finally implement those long missing features their products already have failed the acceptance test of the users.

Because they don't have to move faster.

Yep - this has popped up a few times on HN. Google has zero incentive to improve certain aspects of their business or products (customer service, in particular!) because of their dominant position. For things to improve/change at all is a bit of a stretch, but for this to happen at pace is almost fantasy

Re: The Problem with AMP

#210

Post by coldtea »

nailer wrote: post #191
greenspot wrote: post #162

Google is abusing its powers. The search rank is our currency and Google has pushed AMP sites to the top for some while. So, everybody is now building weird AMP layers for their sites. We went from a free to a proprietary mobile web in just a few weeks. And we can't do anything. It feels like the times when the Internet Explorer tried to rule except that more people were complaining. The open solution to a faster mob…

> I'm wondering who at Google is responsible for AMP. Who created AMP's random specs (no external CSS but external fonts files, preference for four selected font providers, no JS but their JS, probable ranking preference of Google cached AMP sites, etc.). A bunch of people, but Malte Ubl is one of the main people and has the best tech talks on why they picked the techniques and hacks they did. https://www.youtube.com…

>I use AMP on CertSimple but appreciate that AMP favors 'speed achieved using specific techniques' rather than speed per se.

Why on god's name anybody would appreciate that?

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