IQ and education level are well correlated. It would be odd if that did not also correlate with success.
IQ is only a minor factor in success
201–210 of 296 posts
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#202I'm probably decently smart, but I'm not rich at all. In fact I'm quite poor by most people's standards. I'm also really happy and work fewer hours per week than anyone I know. If there's one thing I worry about it's that I should be trying to be rich because I probably have the means to make that happen. I might be making 200k/yr if I worked full time. I might be able to start a successful company if I put my mind t…
I'm guessing you are single and not planning to have kids, right?
eh, I have kids and don't make that much money, but I think the point is still valid.
My colleague and I were talking about this paper the other day because it led to huge questions about all the assumptions underlying our definitions of "success."
For example, my wife and I's household income was fairly big before we had kids, but not really anything noteworthy. It allowed us to save up enough so that her staying home with them isn't too much of a financial strain. I do worry about the long-term consequences in terms of savings, but I also know that to her, staying home with them at this age means a lot to her, and her going to work to be away from them was miserable when she was doing that. I think she feels lucky.
I could have gone into something more lucrative, and probably could be pulling in more money now, but it would mean less flexibility for me, and more stress, etc. I'd also have about as much independence now at my job as someone could have (for better or worse). Are we not successful? I'm not always sure, because I've thought a lot of changing careers, but one reason I haven't is because I'm not sure it would be worth it on balance. It might be, but it might not be.
To abstract it a bit, think about Donald Trump: is he successful? A lot of people would say yes, but is he a model of who we want to be, or our children to be? Sure, some people would say yes, but more would probably say no. So should income be a marker of success?
One problem with these studies (and I think they're valuable, so I don't mean to suggest otherwise) is that what constitutes success is so variable, and is so detached from income, that I'm not sure how to interpret them.
I mean, sure, all other things being equal, I'd rather have more than less money, but all other things are definitely not equal in life. There's pros and cons to everything. Income is a very weak metric of what an ideal life goal is.
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#203Why measure an "Intelligence Quotient" with methods of examination that have been shown to be a pseudo-science? People should be measuring "Intelligence Potential" using proper scientific methods with less subjectivity involved, and more objective evidence used as a way to get closer to true, justified beliefs.
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd put this up there with racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination. This is probably the most offensive thing in this thread. You are allowed to disagree with other people's choices. You are allowed to voice that disagreement, even publicly. People are allowed to think you're stupid for caring whether or not someone else has children. Nothing about any of that is even remotely "discrimination" and to imply…
I'd argue that being harsh to women for their reproductive choices is a key component of modern sexism. Discrimination has a variety of forms.
What do women have to do with it?
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not single, but you're right about the kids. In my world view having a kid is similar to an 18 year prison sentence.
> In my world view having a kid is similar to an 18 year prison sentence. Unless something happens to them you have offspring for the rest of your life; not for 18 years. If you're referring to them leaving the house at 18 y.o. The US trend is that 18 y.o. stay living at home. Personally, I expect students to be the exception to that.
His world view isn't possible to have once you have a child. It's the world view that makes sense when you don't have the data.
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Based on my experience I am 100% convinced that people that can't find joy in the happiness of others should remain single and even more important: never, ever have kids. As a counterargument, I've seen a few people turn into complete monsters once their kids were born. Their justification was "I have kids now and I'll do literally anything for my family, fuck everyone else and their needs." (paraphrased). It's all…
Unless you're talking about friends in warzones I don't really see how their kids are a justification for being, or acting like a dick.
I don't see it either, but I guess people can justify whatever they want to justify.
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well... in order for you to wonder at how "biology ruled over your logical processing unit" a lot of people had to sacrifice their freedoms, before you. Don't beat yourself over it, it's such an important thing that it is equal to "being alive". And what you lose as a person, your DNA gains as a living system. DNA is such a chump. I never realized how much work it does. Every protein in our bodies is copied from DNA.…
I wrote it in so nice way. I'm usually more harsh to people. Deciding not to have kids because it's too much of an effort is so selfish act. You're throwing away all the effort your ancestors put in to get to the point of you being alive.
You have no idea what his ancestors wanted.
I have two kids and whether or not they have kids makes no difference at all to me. Likewise, my parents never pressured me to have kids.
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#208The actual paper, available on sci-hub, does not agree with this innumerate journalist's interpretation of it. http://www.pnas.org.sci-hub.ac/content/113/47/13354.short?rs... In fact, the paper shows that IQ is a great predictor. Personality is a much worse predictor on highly g-loaded tasks, and a good predictor on some others (e.g. wages). But (IQ, personality) pairs are an even better predictor than IQ or personal…
I think, as a Bayesian, you're putting too much weight on your priors about the importance of IQ and are not interpreting the paper correctly. "Achievement" in the context of the paper refers to scores on achievement tests, whereas the thing of actual interest is 'life outcome', and the analysis of that starts on page 3.
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#209duh
Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success
#210The actual paper, available on sci-hub, does not agree with this innumerate journalist's interpretation of it. http://www.pnas.org.sci-hub.ac/content/113/47/13354.short?rs... In fact, the paper shows that IQ is a great predictor. Personality is a much worse predictor on highly g-loaded tasks, and a good predictor on some others (e.g. wages). But (IQ, personality) pairs are an even better predictor than IQ or personal…
This doesn't deserve to be the top comment.