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Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

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Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#201

Post by walrus1066 »

bo1024 wrote: post #101
dzdt wrote: post #7

They describe this as a third-generation vehicle, but it still requires multiple human-driver interventions over a single journey. How many more generations to reach reliable true autonomy?

My opinion as a researcher in AI/ML but without any expertise in self-driving tech: We are a long way from where I would be willing to trust my life to self-driving cars - as a passenger, as another driver on the streets, as a cyclist, or as a pedestrian. Much farther away than these companies press releases make it seem. Here's why. These driving algorithms are successful in large part because of data. They train th…

Also, communicating and negotiating with human drivers. You have to do this all the time in a city like London, mostly on two way roads where there's only room for one car, due to obstacles (roadworks) or parked cars.

In complex situations, flashing lights and honks are not enough, you need to verbally communicate with other drivers.

I would eat my hat if an AI could handle these kinds of situations.

So in short, I'll believe the hype when I see a video of a full auto drive through London at rush hour.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#202

Post by crucini »

jmcdiesel wrote: post #200
crucini wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, and more importantly, when you have only autonomous vehicles on the road, you can make assumptions that all drivers are perfectly rational, and then your safety margins can be smaller, allowing closer travel at higher speeds. Are you saying that a rational driver will never apply maximum braking?

There are non-rational things like animals, kids, and adults with their face in their phones to watch for, so it will never be fully rational... However, the fact that the computer in the following car can detect instantly that the front car is slowing, it can react instantaneously and (theoretically, with similar braking distances) the following car would stop exactly the same distance (give or take a few inches) fr…

OK, so we agree that the lead auto-car may still apply maximum braking unexpectedly. Therefore the follower needs to leave enough space to compensate for reaction latency, difference in braking power, etc.

So how does data communication (or lack thereof) affect this?

The follower can instantly detect that the leader is slowing via sonar/lidar/radar, right?

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#203

Post by eric_h »

kerryfalk wrote: post #100
lojack wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to provide a counter point, in my experience, the biggest problem I face in winter weather is other drivers. I know when I hit a patch of black ice and have difficulty stopping that the oversized van behind me is going to have more difficulty stopping, and I have the instinct to quickly turn instead of waiting on the red light. I also know that cars have difficulty stopping on a steep hill and I may wait before…

Agreed. I don't think the problem in winter driving is the speed. It's anticipating what the hazards are and how to avoid them. You - and the other drivers on the road - have less control at all speeds and are always much closer to the limit of traction. Driving on winter roads is a lot like racing a car on a track with other drivers - everyone is near the limit of traction and a hazard can present itself very quickl…

> Driving on winter roads is a lot like racing a car on a track with other drivers - everyone is near the limit of traction and a hazard can present itself very quickly

That is an excellent analogy.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#204

Post by DonHopkins »

autotune wrote: post #13

How is this going to combat people who make a mess inside the vehicle after going 100 percent without human drivers/test engineers? If it picks up a drunk person at 3 AM who then throws up inside the car, is it vomit-aware and knows it needs a cleaning before picking up the next passenger?

Go with the flow: Institute a highly profitable vomit fee, and offer a VR headset for the passengers to wear during the ride, to increase the chances that they'll throw up.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2009/10/what_price_v...

"I'm a vomit-bucket-half-full sort of guy. I don't think these cabbies are trying to charge you for puking, I think they are offering you the premium service of vomiting in their taxi."

"America was built on the idea of premium services. This is how the wealthy are able to have so much more fun than everyone else. They can behave however they want as long as they have the money to cover the premiums! The $70 currently in my wallet entitles me to a good three blocks on Michigan Avenue and a nice half-digested deep dish pizza projectile vomited all over the headrest."

http://uberpeople.net/threads/throw-up.630/

"Yep Uber is pretty good here in Sydney as well. I had the outside of my car given the Jackson Pollock chunky rainbow look by a passenger. His friends thought it was a real laugh and afterwards I found they had also taken my giveaway chocolates as well. Sent the report in with photos and $95 receipt for the cleanup, and got $250 credited to my account the very next payment.

I have to say, in all my years of driving public vehicles Uber (with its hold on the rider's credit card detail) , have the best and quickest method to compensate drivers for these horrible incidents when they occur."

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#205

Post by deGravity »

autotune wrote: post #13

How is this going to combat people who make a mess inside the vehicle after going 100 percent without human drivers/test engineers? If it picks up a drunk person at 3 AM who then throws up inside the car, is it vomit-aware and knows it needs a cleaning before picking up the next passenger?

Have cameras take pictures of the interior before and after each ride. You then have a verifiable record of what state the car is in, and you don't have a bunch of data-privacy issues around recording activities while someone is inside the car.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#206

Post by jayjay71 »

cstejerean wrote: post #68
estefan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. It's the MO of airbnb, uber and other SV startups. We've seen more than once that making a land grab for a new market brings more long-term success than any penalties dished out for not playing by the rules.

Because there is no reason to guess and make baseless claims, the article already addressed this topic. A permit is not required because a safety operator is on board at all times. Skirting regulations and paying fines has nothing to do with it.

Apparently San Francisco disagrees.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/12/14/uber-ordered-to-stop-self-...

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#207

Post by beambot »

cududa wrote: post #184
beambot wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're subsidized with invested money and debt. So are public utilities, public resources, and all levels of government (local, state, & federal)...

Unless the government decides to nationalize Uber, what's your point?

That subsidization with invested money and debt is not uncommon, atypical, or untoward. In fact, those same instruments are used by most companies (not just startups) in one form or another. Actually, they're used by almost every entity in our economy, even individuals (ie. credit cards and mortgages). So the GP's point was moot.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#208

Post by jedberg »

crucini wrote: post #183
jedberg wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of traffic reduction is twofold. First is the fact that there can be a lot more carpools because you don't need the owner of the car to be inconvenienced to make the carpool work, so there will be an overall reduction of cars on the road. Second, and more importantly, when you have only autonomous vehicles on the road, you can make assumptions that all drivers are perfectly rational, and then your safety mar…

> Second, and more importantly, when you have only autonomous vehicles on the road, you can make assumptions that all drivers are perfectly rational, and then your safety margins can be smaller, allowing closer travel at higher speeds. Are you saying that a rational driver will never apply maximum braking?

Maximum breaking is still a possibility but you can do things like assume you won't get cut off and you can safely ride someone's blind spot and assume they will see you. Things like that.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#209

Post by notheguyouthink »

Taek wrote: post #38
notheguyouthink wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The car has all those cameras covering the outside of the vehicle This raises a good point i never thought about. If in some day all of our cars have self driving or self aware features, then that means nearly all locations in the city are within reach of cameras and possibly microphones. I'm not "a paranoid" about privacy stuff, but that is quite impressive nonetheless. The future is going to be quite interesting.…

Your phone is more omnipresent and knows about as much as your car would.

Yes but i'm not trying to evade detection. If i was, i would obviously not bring a phone with me. I can't however, avoid all cars, everywhere.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#210

Post by greenleafjacob »

vladimirralev wrote: post #171
bo1024 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion as a researcher in AI/ML but without any expertise in self-driving tech: We are a long way from where I would be willing to trust my life to self-driving cars - as a passenger, as another driver on the streets, as a cyclist, or as a pedestrian. Much farther away than these companies press releases make it seem. Here's why. These driving algorithms are successful in large part because of data. They train th…

I think you are missing the most important part here. These cars are always online and share data between them. They have a detailed map of every street and every road bump and every road pole/sign that can be used for navigation. Even if everything is in snow and the camera/lidar is frozen and can't see anything, these cars know exactly where they are and where the road is from predictive navigation based on speed,…

Dead reckoning is pretty bad by itself but with GPS it probably wouldn't be too bad.
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