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My Google Internship

goldsborough.me

201–210 of 270 posts

Re: My Google Internship

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone who doesn't care much about toilet signage, you sure care a lot about toilet signage.

You misread, or I miscommunicated my statement: I don't care about 'signage'. If Google has a practical reason to have special signage, all the power to them. I care about the 'social ethos unwittingly imbued on people' as a function of an aggressive culture. The signage is an artifact of the culture, as implied by the author it's 'Googly', i.e. 'these are the values that we must have' - which may have nothing to do…

You sound like you're the one grappling with "gender ID issues".

Re: My Google Internship

#202
post #58

Great read. However, he lost me at > Googley to stand up for diversity and inclusion, such as protesting against binary gendering on toilets Is it Google's business? Why should Google be involved? Why cater to 0.6% of the population, at the expense of convenience for the 99.4%? At my last job we had "non-binary", "all-inclusive" bathrooms. They're just awkward. Not the stalls themselves, but having to share the bathr…

I would ask you why is this singled out of an article that covers a large range of ideas. Your mask is now off.

Re: My Google Internship

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone who doesn't care much about toilet signage, you sure care a lot about toilet signage.

You misread, or I miscommunicated my statement: I don't care about 'signage'. If Google has a practical reason to have special signage, all the power to them. I care about the 'social ethos unwittingly imbued on people' as a function of an aggressive culture. The signage is an artifact of the culture, as implied by the author it's 'Googly', i.e. 'these are the values that we must have' - which may have nothing to do…

This is all a bit intersectionalist for me. I'm having a hard time keeping track. Are they asking people to pray to the toilet signage? I think I might be right there with you on that one.

Re: My Google Internship

#204
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My goog office has many trans engineers. They're very good at their jobs. I guess they might not want to work in an office designed by you, either now or at some stage in their transition. You'd be missing out on their talent.

trans engineers who refuse to work at a place with binary toilets? If a population of conservative engineers existed who refused to work at a place with non-binary toilets, would you make the same statement? Or would they not be good at their jobs?

Having a conservative politic is a choice. That person probably has a lot of intersecting workplace difficulties that go along with being the type of person who wants to police which bathrooms people use.

Re: My Google Internship

#205
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting "binary gendering" on toilets means deliberately troubling one's transsexual, queer etc. colleagues; not only hurting their feelings with a constant reminder that they are misfits, but concretely allowing obnoxious people to attack them because they are guilty of using the "wrong" restroom. Such an attitude, although less harmful than many more common workplace problems, is so high on the jerk scale that I…

I want to start this by saying I think it is wrong for a person to be attacked in any manner for their citizenship in a protected class. At the same time, I think all protected classes should be fair game for critical discussion on the pros and cons of belonging to that specific class. With my opening comment in mind, what if I reject your premise and believe that ones gender should match their sex? Is it not a polit…

My "premise" is that going out of one's way to make someone feel miserable is evil, and therefore unisex toilets in the workplace are nice. Where the transsexual, queer etc. employees who care are abundant rather than hypothetical, as appears to be the case at Google, unisex toilets are practically important rather than a symbolic gesture.

I don't see not being evil as a controversial issue, with "radically different viewpoints" deserving "open honest dialog".

Unisex toilets are just a simple and inexpensive way to be not evil; unfortunately touching the subject of gender is a strong temptation for many people to divert the discussion towards the most toxic and horrible politically correct or intolerant ideas.

If your premise is considering "protected classes" rather than people and discussing "transgenderism" as if it were abstract you are clearly not thinking about the comfort and well-being of your coworkers.

Re: My Google Internship

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misread, or I miscommunicated my statement: I don't care about 'signage'. If Google has a practical reason to have special signage, all the power to them. I care about the 'social ethos unwittingly imbued on people' as a function of an aggressive culture. The signage is an artifact of the culture, as implied by the author it's 'Googly', i.e. 'these are the values that we must have' - which may have nothing to do…

You sound like you're the one grappling with "gender ID issues".

There are other places for trolling and ad-hominem.

Moreover, you're likely unwittingly helping me make my point.

Re: My Google Internship

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how about 90% of your posts on HN are attacking Google, that Googlers have continued to try to engage you in rational discussion nicely speaks volumes.

Engaging me in what you believe to be "rational" discussion isn't going to change my posts. Because despite your attempt to ignore addressing the issues I highlight by grouping them together and characterize me as a 'hater', I'm a pretty straight shooter. If you want to change my commentary, you have to change your employer. Why not ask Larry Page at those company AMAs why Google keeps their contracts with manufactur…

Buying into the weakest conspiracies of Julian Assange is not being a "straight shooter". You took Google to task over their patent pledge and demanded they release all of their patents unconditionally, but give Microsoft a pass on highly trollish and litigious behavior.

You also don't mention that some of the things Google (and Facebook and Twitter) are not complying with concern Russian government attempts to persecute bloggers. Google was also not "compliant" with Beijing's demands for censorship and in 2010, pulled out of the country entirely, giving up billions of dollars in revenue and letting Baidu completely take over.

You say you're not a "hater", but you post almost exclusively on this subject, not just on HN, but on your other social network accounts. My facebook feed is pretty much 100% on bad stuff about Trump these days, and it would be completely accurate to characterize me as a Trump hater.

And for the record, people are pretty vocal internally about fixing product excellence and customer support issues. One of the chief reasons why complaining on HN works, is that so many Googlers care about this issue and are dismayed to see what should be customer support issues on HN. Righting a ship with several billion users is going to take time. Microsoft and Apple has 3+ decades of experience organically growing their consumer support culture.

Re: My Google Internship

#208

"It’s Googley to stand up for diversity and inclusion, such as protesting against binary gendering on toilets" This is BS. 99.99% of the world is find with the 'binary signage' on toilets, and it is absolutely not 'anti trans' or 'anti anyone else' frankly, to do so. BTW - this is not like a 1960's movement - you're not in the 'right side of history' here. 'Binary Gender' is, and will always be normative, simply beca…

So if 'Binary Gender' is, and will always be normative, simply because almost everyone is binary, I wonder what it might be like to be left-handed. Would you consider it social extremism to treat left-handers, which are a seriously small minority (10%) as actually equal to right-handed, normative, normal folks?

Re: My Google Internship

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engaging me in what you believe to be "rational" discussion isn't going to change my posts. Because despite your attempt to ignore addressing the issues I highlight by grouping them together and characterize me as a 'hater', I'm a pretty straight shooter. If you want to change my commentary, you have to change your employer. Why not ask Larry Page at those company AMAs why Google keeps their contracts with manufactur…

Buying into the weakest conspiracies of Julian Assange is not being a "straight shooter". You took Google to task over their patent pledge and demanded they release all of their patents unconditionally, but give Microsoft a pass on highly trollish and litigious behavior. You also don't mention that some of the things Google (and Facebook and Twitter) are not complying with concern Russian government attempts to perse…

It has nothing to do with Julian Assange. He's revealed... pretty much nothing of substance about Google that wasn't already out there (Heck, Google publicizes a lot of it). But Jared Cohen IS incredibly scary as an individual, not just for his attempts to work with our State department, but his desire to censor speech on the Internet that Google and our government disagree with. The fact that Joshua Wright jumps from Google paycheck to Google paycheck in government while "technically" not being a Google employee, and has managed to successful jump from the Obama administration to the Trump administration, is genuinely amazing.

If your company is going to take a stand against censorship, and is willing to leave a country to do it: Great. But let's not get off topic, and talk about how Google has been found guilty of antitrust, and fined for it. A trivial fine, mind you, Google makes that much in literally seconds, yet Google has refused to pay it, and has since already gotten fined again for noncompliance. And no move on Google releasing manufacturers from the illegal terms they're being held to with respect to the Russian market.

The issue with Google's patents is their hypocrisy. They claim they're against patent litigation, but only actually pledge not to abuse a tiny percentage of their own stockpile. We cannot and should not trust a corporation to not act in it's best interest. While it may not be in Google's interest to patent troll today, neither you nor anyone at Google can rationally say they won't tomorrow. Leadership changes, market positions change, and Google, first and foremost, has to serve it's stockholders. Microsoft doesn't so much get a "pass" on the matter as a stay of execution, because they're chipping away at a criminal operation.

Re: My Google Internship

#210

Sorry, it seems like some kind of pseudo-utopia for people who want to feel special and intelligent all the time. People in silly spaceship themed rooms, meditating or hacking upside down, or maybe in sensory deprivation chambers for deep focus? It all screams: I'm entitled to coddling and acceptance--nay, encouragement of my eccentricities--cause I'm special. I just don't know if that's healthy or necessary, if Goog…

So you think that everyone dressing like an IBM'r in the 70's is better its the eccentrics, hackers and od balls that often can produce the ground breaking work

Never thought id get down voted on here for standing up for "hacker" culture.

And BTW one of the worlds leading IBM experts (ie IBM used to get him to give talks ) to used to meditate in his own home made flotation tank - he one saved a quarterly billing run that was measured in hundreds of millions.

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