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Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

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Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#201

Post by mcherm »

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #92
amzn-336495 wrote: post #11

Amazon tries to trap people through control by visas, and they will go so far as to relocate people overseas to Seattle. They have a fucked up system where rank and file get the darwin treatment but management gets the rewards. They will pay bonuses around $250k, $500k, $1 million to senior managers, directors, and VPs respectively to abuse the shit out of employees. The "PIP someone who is trying to get away from th…

Sounds like Capital One as well, which is mirroring Amazon's culture as well as stack ranking system.

Perhaps you have experience in a different part of Capital One than I do. While the annual assessment process does bear some resemblance to stack ranking (and to be clear, I think this assessment process is one of Capital One's flaws and it would be better if it were changed), the rest of the description of Amazon's culture does not sound like what I see working here at Capital One.

I see a company that, 5 years ago, was 80% outsourced and now is more like 20% outsourced and continuing to change. I see a company where the developers and technical experts are given a huge amount of power and influence in the direction of the company. As I type this at 8:15 in the morning, I look around the floor of my building and see only two other people in early; yesterday at 5:45 PM there were only 4 others and they were playing Foosball. Sure, when you're on-task you are expected to cooperate with your teammates and to be productive, but the attitude is not one of "deliver or die", more of "let's see what we can achieve!".

Please don't think I'm dismissing your experience: you are probably in a different part of the company and have a different experience. But your description didn't resemble my own experience, and I thought that was worth mentioning.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#202

Post by [deleted] »

coredog64 wrote: post #194
IndianAstronaut wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work under a micromanaging boss (who doubles as a PM). It is stifling. I can't function, get much done, move projects forward, etc. It's horrendous.

Just wait until you get a femtomanager as a supervisor.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#203

Post by lostboys67 »

dingaling wrote: post #148
cwilkes wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really angered me about that article was Amazon trying to say that this was a "colleague" -- he was on a PIP. Which is pretty much Amazon speak for a dead man walking (no pun intended).

At a Big Corp where I worked, I think it was three 'satisfactory' ratings in a row which resulted in a PIP. Satisfactory: fulfilling expectations or needs. But not in Corporate Nu-Speak.

I recall British telecom it was "needs some improvement" that triggered a pip that but everyone has some thing that needs improvement.

Given the will you can find an excuse to put anyone on a PIP.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#204

Post by 77pt77 »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #152
IndianAstronaut wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work under a micromanaging boss (who doubles as a PM). It is stifling. I can't function, get much done, move projects forward, etc. It's horrendous.

> I work under a micromanaging boss I don't have a "boss" I have a "manager" or "team lead". I don't work "under" or "for" my "manager", I work "with" them. If you understand that connotations of words matter, you should use other words. When you start to use other words, you might start to act differently. When you start to act differently your manager might too. Meanwhile, your manager sounds terrible. My condolenc…

> When you start to use other words, you might start to act differently

Words don't change reality. That's delusional.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#205

Post by mrob »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #197
mrob wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing subconscious about it. A boss by definition has more power. Pretending it's not so won't change the facts.

The boss has the power to terminate your employment relationship. You have the same power. If you are in software, most likely you'll find a new job long before they find a replacement. That's certainly true of my team. What "power" do you believe the boss has that an employee doesn't?

The boss can usually harm the subordinate's quality of life much more than the subordinate can harm the boss's quality of life. If you are fired than you immediately have less income. Your reputation is damaged if people learn of it. If you quit then it rarely causes any harm to the boss. They still have the same income. They probably have several other subordinates. Power imbalance is the defining characteristic of the boss/subordinate relationship. The boss can give orders and the subordinate will obey because the consequences if they refuse are worse for them than for the boss. This is what you pay to gain the stability of employment.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#206

Post by mcherm »

sssilver wrote: post #78
rockinghigh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still judge company-wide policies like vacations, 401k match, or health care.

I wouldn't be surprised if the person working in an Amazon warehouse doesn't have the same vacation options as the person coding the internals of Simple Queue Service.

Based on the (lack of) attention that SQS has received, I'm guessing that the person coding the internals of SQS has LOTS of vacation.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#207

Post by subway »

dagw wrote: post #180
shawabawa3 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't we talking about software engineers not just generic users? I would be very surprised if an engineer working primarily in windows couldn't write a .bat/powershell script

I wouldn't. I work with lots of (non-software) engineers and I bet that most of them couldn't produce an non-trivial .bat without a lot of googling.

I'm pretty sure the structural engineer next to me has no clue wtf a script is. Fortunately this conversation is about software engineers.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#208

Post by yummyfajitas »

mrob wrote: post #205
yummyfajitas wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boss has the power to terminate your employment relationship. You have the same power. If you are in software, most likely you'll find a new job long before they find a replacement. That's certainly true of my team. What "power" do you believe the boss has that an employee doesn't?

The boss can usually harm the subordinate's quality of life much more than the subordinate can harm the boss's quality of life. If you are fired than you immediately have less income. Your reputation is damaged if people learn of it. If you quit then it rarely causes any harm to the boss. They still have the same income. They probably have several other subordinates. Power imbalance is the defining characteristic of…

If I or most of my colleagues are fired we'll have less income for a month or two. Our lifestyle won't change [1] unless we want it to. In contrast, if my employees quit, my projects are significantly slowed, I need to spend a lot of effort hiring new ones (I hate hiring) and I'll look bad.

Furthermore, insofar as costs are unequal, that's merely a reflection of the principal/agent problem. Similarly, as a boss (but not an owner), I'm also motivated to overpay my workers; it keeps them happy and helps me get my work done (by hiring better people), and it's not my money that I'm spending.

[1] My colleagues all live in a country with a 30% savings rate and where American levels of financial recklessness are not socially acceptable.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#209

Post by shostack »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #208
mrob wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boss can usually harm the subordinate's quality of life much more than the subordinate can harm the boss's quality of life. If you are fired than you immediately have less income. Your reputation is damaged if people learn of it. If you quit then it rarely causes any harm to the boss. They still have the same income. They probably have several other subordinates. Power imbalance is the defining characteristic of…

If I or most of my colleagues are fired we'll have less income for a month or two. Our lifestyle won't change [1] unless we want it to. In contrast, if my employees quit, my projects are significantly slowed, I need to spend a lot of effort hiring new ones (I hate hiring) and I'll look bad. Furthermore, insofar as costs are unequal, that's merely a reflection of the principal/agent problem. Similarly, as a boss (but…

And what if you are not an engineer or don't live in SV and thus don't have those job options?

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#210

Post by gtirloni »

Very clever way to write the title and the article itself. You get the impression that 1) he is dead and after reading a bit more that 2) he survived a jump from a 12-story building.

From reading other articles, it seems he is alive and jumped from the 4th floor.

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