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Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

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Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#201

Post by hulahoof »

Grazester wrote: post #17
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tizen has other traits that might be more appealing, like the fact that it's open source. (And arguably, more open source than Android by far.) And if Samsung chose to start pushing Tizen phones over Android phones... bear in mind, Samsung is pretty much THE Android manufacturer, everyone else rides their coattails. Samsung is maybe the only company that can upset the apple cart as far as Google's concerned.

Without the Google Play Store Samsung's phones without Android are not going to sell.

I disagree, while some may buy samsung as they see it as the top 'android' choice, I buy them because the displays look the nicest to me. I could care less what OS it was running, and I can't be the only one.

(Why do you think people can iOS android but not android 3rd party? The adjustment is the same and not everyone buys a phone to play games with their friends)

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#202

Post by bitmapbrother »

xorxornop wrote: post #193
bitmapbrother wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any metrics to prove your baseless assumptions?

They said "has support for", not "is". This is a natural consequence of having value types (structs). You can even change the bit packing and other layout properties of structs.

Are you replying to the proper comment?

In any case, he stated that an Android C# app would be more performant than an app coded in Java without supplying any metrics to prove his point.

>This is a natural consequence of having value types (structs). You can even change the bit packing and other layout properties of structs.

And yet the JVM still beats the CLR in performance.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#203

Post by RivieraKid »

patates wrote: post #69
geodel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google have not made their own languages Dart/Go official to Android. Why would they make languages other than Java a priority now?

Dart doesn't have the adoption yet and has a different plan when it comes to mobile ( https://github.com/flutter/flutter ). I love Go, but it's not really a suitable language to do UI, or anything that deals with data models. C#, however, is a perfect replacement for Java, most of the times. I would say "it's simply superior in every imaginable metric other than cross-platform implementations of the compiler/VM" but…

> I would say "it's simply superior in every imaginable metric other than cross-platform implementations of the compiler/VM" but that's just my opinion.

Not by a big margin. Java 8 has lambda functions, which used to be the most painful aspect of the language for me.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#205

Post by int_19h »

smnscu wrote: post #169
owaislone wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET would have had a real chance at being the android application platform if it was philosophically in the state that it is today (open sourced toolchain/compilers, open-source friendly MS, Mono/Xamarin in good shape). Moving android away from Java is going to be a big undertaking and I doubt Google will undertake such a huge project only to move away from Oracle and closer to MS. If they ever try to replace Java,…

Silly idea that will never happen, but imagine Google and Microsoft* working together on Android and it becoming actually open (i.e. not a tool to protect google search on mobile) and easily targetable by Java, C#, Go, etc. apps. From a technical point of view it might sound difficult until you realize modern smartphones are veritable beasts compared to computers 10 years ago, and we've had general purpose OSes for d…

It's not really so silly from Microsoft's perspective. Given the sorry state of affairs with WP, and company's overall focus on Azure, it would make perfect sense to embrace a popular mobile platform, if this could be translated to more sales of Azure services.

What Google is to get out of it is a more interesting question.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#206

Post by icebraining »

smnscu wrote: post #169
owaislone wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET would have had a real chance at being the android application platform if it was philosophically in the state that it is today (open sourced toolchain/compilers, open-source friendly MS, Mono/Xamarin in good shape). Moving android away from Java is going to be a big undertaking and I doubt Google will undertake such a huge project only to move away from Oracle and closer to MS. If they ever try to replace Java,…

Silly idea that will never happen, but imagine Google and Microsoft* working together on Android and it becoming actually open (i.e. not a tool to protect google search on mobile) and easily targetable by Java, C#, Go, etc. apps. From a technical point of view it might sound difficult until you realize modern smartphones are veritable beasts compared to computers 10 years ago, and we've had general purpose OSes for d…

I'm sure it was difficult, but you can already ship C# code using Xamarin, no need to wait for Microsoft.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#207

Post by int_19h »

RivieraKid wrote: post #203
patates wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dart doesn't have the adoption yet and has a different plan when it comes to mobile ( https://github.com/flutter/flutter ). I love Go, but it's not really a suitable language to do UI, or anything that deals with data models. C#, however, is a perfect replacement for Java, most of the times. I would say "it's simply superior in every imaginable metric other than cross-platform implementations of the compiler/VM" but…

> I would say "it's simply superior in every imaginable metric other than cross-platform implementations of the compiler/VM" but that's just my opinion. Not by a big margin. Java 8 has lambda functions, which used to be the most painful aspect of the language for me.

It does them. But it repeats the story with generics, where back-compat (in this case, lack of reified generics) requires hacks for acceptable performance.

For example, in Java, you have this: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/?java/util/function...

Note all the permutations. This is necessary, because there's no way to define a generic interface that would have acceptable perf, due to boxing. So you end up defining separate types for things like int->int, int->int->int, long->long etc. And then if you need e.g. bool->int, well, that's just too bad.

Whereas in C#, you just have Func and Action, and they work with all permutations of all primitive and user-defined types.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#208

Post by int_19h »

eva1984 wrote: post #199
patates wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dart doesn't have the adoption yet and has a different plan when it comes to mobile ( https://github.com/flutter/flutter ). I love Go, but it's not really a suitable language to do UI, or anything that deals with data models. C#, however, is a perfect replacement for Java, most of the times. I would say "it's simply superior in every imaginable metric other than cross-platform implementations of the compiler/VM" but…

Nothing can replace Java for android, unless it can also replace all the libraries current Android application is replying, which is the reason why I believe Google isn't going to switch off Java anytime soon.

Xamarin already provides what is, in effect, a .NET compatibility layer on top of Android/Java.

There's no reason why it can't be reversed, with Xamarin (or something along these lines) becoming the new native high-level API, and Java being a compat layer on top of that.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#209

Post by int_19h »

Pxtl wrote: post #143
jaegerpicker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not attacking you opinion at all but I'm a little shocked that someone would have this opinion, I work at a Java shop (using java 8 but I'm mostly now on the node.js side). Java 8 really doesn't have any features that are better than C#'s. Java 8 is missing some pretty major ones, like type inference, automatic getters/setters, LINQ, function passing support that's not brain dead, and a number of of things that make…

While I prefer C#'s delegates/lambdas, there has been an occasional time I've wished for the ability to construct a full instanced object in that case - Java's anonymous inner classes are brilliant at this. Likewise Java's OOP enums (basically singletons) are something I miss too. That's a few small features I notice missing when I switch to C#. Plus, in general I find there's a difference in style. C# libraries tend…

> Likewise Java's OOP enums (basically singletons) are something I miss too.

C# guys are working on adding full-fledged pattern matching to the language:

https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn/blob/features/patterns/docs...

and there's a concurrent proposal for ADTs:

https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn/issues/6739

Given the velocity of adding new features in C# these days, these will come sooner rather than later (indeed, some basic pattern matching is already in C# 7).

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#210

Post by michsanders »

Longhanks wrote: post #16
Grazester wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly would be the benefit of this?

No more problems with Oracle, C# features that Java is missing, such as type inference, proper generics, built in concurrency, operator overloading, first class optionals, ...

No more problems with Oracle, but what about Microsoft? Today we have the "cool" CEO, but that may change in the future. Remember Android started when Java was in Sun Microsystems' hands.

Apart from that, C# and Java are not very different from each other. You can get many of that "features" from other Java languages, no need to move away from the JVM, so you can still benefit from the largest community.

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