Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#201

Post by JadeNB » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:01 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #194

JadeNB wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Some websites have legitimate use for autoplaying media. Some users (believe it or not) actually _like_ their videos autoplaying when they scroll through their Facebook feed or whatever media site they visit. > This was also true of popups. It still is. Is this analogy really correct, in the sense that there are legitimate , user-focussed cases for pop-ups? I know lots of web-sites want me to see pop-ups, and som…

A good use case is linking to a FAQ item in a form. You don't want to navigate away, but the item is usually small, so a pop-up in a small window is good.

Why not have some sort of CSS / JavaScript trickery so that the FAQ item can be displayed or hidden without any sort of pop-up at all? Anyone who browses with JavaScript off is tech-savvy enough to open up the page in a new tab. (Anyway, for me, this definitely falls under the "web site thinks it's the best UI; I don't", but I recognise that this is almost by definition a matter of personal opinion.)

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#202

Post by hub_ » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

phobius wrote: post #3

Agree this is an annoyance - how would you propose keeping features like YouTube or Netflix autoplay/playlists in this scenario?

For starter you could restrict the autoplay the next video only if it is the same element.

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#203

Post by noir_lord » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

ziszis wrote: post #171

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your know there are HN readers who write this crap. I wonder if they'll chime in on why they do.

Why they do it? Easy. You are not the customer, the advertiser is. So as long as it is tolerable for a sufficient % of the audience, it is worth it. Case in point, circumventing ad blockers. Audience explicitly doesn't want the ad experience, but Facebook wants to make more $. Facebook just announced a record quarter on desktop advertising fueled by successfully circumventing ad blockers. https://techcrunch.com/2016/…

I wonder which adblockers they are successfully circumventing because with Ublock Origin out the box I've not seen any adverts for I forget how long.

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#204

Post by mgkimsal » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

matt_morgan wrote: post #150

t64wdrk wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my last job at a web agency, I was told to make a newsletter popup that opened on first page load. I said to my project manager (he was a web developer before) that it was bad design and everyone finds it annoying. He said that the client wanted it, and I should just do it. I asked him, what if the client wanted a pink unicorn gif in the corner, should we just do that as well? Without telling the client that it do…

Don't tell them yes or tell them no. Test, monitor, and promote the path that leads to the best success rates, acknowledging that user growth may drive success in the longer term. Take the long view, basically.

need also to look beyond a month or quarter.

my wife has quit going to several sites altogether, and in other cases can not buy on a website, because of pop-up stuff.

So... if they're measuring for "email signups" then - w00t! - sweet! - numbers are so high! What about actual sales? Or repeat sales? Lifetime value of a customer?

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#205

Post by ziszis » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:21 PM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #203

ziszis wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why they do it? Easy. You are not the customer, the advertiser is. So as long as it is tolerable for a sufficient % of the audience, it is worth it. Case in point, circumventing ad blockers. Audience explicitly doesn't want the ad experience, but Facebook wants to make more $. Facebook just announced a record quarter on desktop advertising fueled by successfully circumventing ad blockers. https://techcrunch.com/2016/…

I wonder which adblockers they are successfully circumventing because with Ublock Origin out the box I've not seen any adverts for I forget how long.

AdBlock has commented on this and seems that there have been intermittent periods of no blocking: https://adblockplus.org/blog/ping-pong-with-facebook

"While Facebook appears to have had the last word for now, this, friends, is a long game. That being said, a few other ad blockers have apparently found workarounds to Facebook’s latest circumvention."

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#206

Post by random_rr » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

JadeNB wrote: post #192

LamaOfRuin wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was also true of popups. It still is. Yet it became such a scourge from people misusing it that browsers interested in providing their users the best experience provided an option to disable them (where we are now with auto-play) and eventually turned on that option by default. Pop-up blocking became a feature users would switch browsers for, forcing all vendors to add it. If advertisers continue to use auto-pla…

> > Some websites have legitimate use for autoplaying media. Some users (believe it or not) actually _like_ their videos autoplaying when they scroll through their Facebook feed or whatever media site they visit. > This was also true of popups. It still is. Is this analogy really correct, in the sense that there are legitimate , user-focussed cases for pop-ups? I know lots of web-sites want me to see pop-ups, and som…

Pop ups are awesome when they have content I want. They're a quick way to draw attention to something important while retaining the page they are on. These aspects of usefulness unfortunately apply to ad-infested pop ups.

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#207

Post by IvanK_net » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

I completely disagree with this proposal.

All websites should be allowed to play sounds any time they want to. Without it, webapps can not reasonably compete the native apps.

I am a developer of web games and being able to play the sound from the beginning, without any interaction from the user, is one of the most essential parts of the game experience.

If you visit a website which unexpectedly plays a sound, you should stop visiting it / downvote it / ask the authors to stop doing it. When you are surprised by the sound, the problem is not in browsers, the problem is in authors of webpages / webapps.

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#208

Post by jimmaswell » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

JadeNB wrote: post #201

rtpg wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good use case is linking to a FAQ item in a form. You don't want to navigate away, but the item is usually small, so a pop-up in a small window is good.

Why not have some sort of CSS / JavaScript trickery so that the FAQ item can be displayed or hidden without any sort of pop-up at all? Anyone who browses with JavaScript off is tech-savvy enough to open up the page in a new tab. (Anyway, for me, this definitely falls under the "web site thinks it's the best UI; I don't", but I recognise that this is almost by definition a matter of personal opinion.)

This was the use case for frames.

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#209

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

IvanK_net wrote: post #207

I completely disagree with this proposal. All websites should be allowed to play sounds any time they want to. Without it, webapps can not reasonably compete the native apps. I am a developer of web games and being able to play the sound from the beginning, without any interaction from the user, is one of the most essential parts of the game experience. If you visit a website which unexpectedly plays a sound, you sho…

They could at the very least require a dialog asking for permission to play sound. I think this wouldn't be a problem for web game developers like you because anyone who wants to play a game would say yes without a second thought, but it would be a massive quality of life improvement for the average Internet user.

It would be great if every web administrator behaved nicely to users but that just doesn't happen, especially when ads are involved.

Re: Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Playing Media in Browsers

#210

Post by jimmaswell » Sun, Nov 13, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #194

JadeNB wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Some websites have legitimate use for autoplaying media. Some users (believe it or not) actually _like_ their videos autoplaying when they scroll through their Facebook feed or whatever media site they visit. > This was also true of popups. It still is. Is this analogy really correct, in the sense that there are legitimate , user-focussed cases for pop-ups? I know lots of web-sites want me to see pop-ups, and som…

A good use case is linking to a FAQ item in a form. You don't want to navigate away, but the item is usually small, so a pop-up in a small window is good.

A frame that displays the item you clicked on on the right, with the faq links on the left, would be great for this use case. The only thing I think was wrong with frames was that the main url didn't point to the frame you had open, like url#framename.