Live data from Hacker News

When world leaders thought you shouldn't need passports or visas

theconversation.com

201–203 of 203 posts

Re: When world leaders thought you shouldn't need passports or visas

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration is a huge issue. It implies tremendous demographic and resource management, logistic, cultural chocks, including educational challenges. Of course nations want to control borders. If you don't, you can't deal with the population flow and all of the above. And you need to deal with the above. Just hoping everything will be ok if you don't think about it is like hoping schools will be ok if we don't think a…

And yet, for a long time in the past century, the U.S. dealt with a massive influx of immigration from all around the world, with all of the complications around culture, resource, and education that you mention. But it seems to me that it is one of the chief sources of the country's strength, no?

Yes, and you still had to present yourself at the border, with a passport, and be registered. Controlling immigration doesn't mean preventing people to get in, it means knowing who is coming in, and how many people, at which rate, so you can take decisions.

Besides, while it is a country strength, it did and still do have a cost. Whether this cost is worth the benefit is something you can only answer if you have metrics to do so, and illegal immigration make it hard to have those metrics, or change your policy to adapt to your new situation.

People always see immigrations as being a moral issue first, but it really is not. It has strong moral implications by nature, but it's first a management issue. Just like eduction, science, etc.

Re: When world leaders thought you shouldn't need passports or visas

#202
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see that the word "racism" has ceased to have meaning. This is called "gaslighting". You have encountered a use of the term "racist" that you think is poor usage. Instead of confining your criticism to the specific usage of the term, you declare any and all uses of the term "meaningless". It's intellectually lazy. Perhaps your definition of racist is "openly and aggressively advocating against one of three or fou…

> This is called "gaslighting" Incorrect. "Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a victim is manipulated into doubting his or her own memory, perception, and sanity." I don't believe that I have attempted to manipulate anyone into doubting their memory, perception, or sanity. > But rather than stand up for what you believe is a sensible use of the word, you wipe your hands the entire d…

Sorry, I thought you were saying that racism doesn't mean anything when anyone uses the term. I misunderstood.

Re: When world leaders thought you shouldn't need passports or visas

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be suggesting that it's perfectly fine to have tremendous inequality (compare Dharavi to Baltimore) as long as it enables long term business investments. Having some amount of inequality is the only way it's possible to have long term business investments -- or any investments at all. Because we need doctors, engineers and businessmen but also miners, truck drivers and janitors. These professions will n…

But the EU has a population about twice that of the US. So why shouldn't we impose trade barriers within the EU to bring this awful competition down to American levels? Similarly, India should perhaps split herself into US-sized chunks, and Biharis shouldn't be allowed to migrate to Bombay? (Shiv Sena would love this.) Similarly, as the US grows, shouldn't we start imposing internal trade barriers to keep our size do…

But India does have a problem with excessive competition keeping wages low. The rest of the EU might actually be better off with fewer countries in it (e.g. without Greece). Measures to keep the US population stable rather than growing could be beneficial.

And there are obviously political considerations. Nobody is going to let you carve up national borders over this, so we're stuck with the existing borders even if that isn't 100% perfectly optimal. Estimating the optimal size is going to be at the "orders of magnitude" level anyway.

Post reply on HN