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When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

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Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#201

Post by mikerichards »

learc83 wrote: post #159
narrator wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west's critical flaw is that it believes its own propaganda. The "Washington Consensus" believed that no country could develop or resist the temptations of the "superior" culture and understanding of the western financial system and industry. That the countries that they were moving into were hopeless without their intelligence and guidance and would quickly fall in line and become dependent and helpless without…

Talk about believing propaganda. You're falling for Chinese propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Broad Sustainable Building Group is basically one giant propaganda machine propped up by government loans. They've been talking about building the world's tallest building in only 90 days for years, but they recently dropped the idea because it was never a serious proposal . Buildings of this height need rigidity from huge…

he's not falling for Chinese propaganda, he's part of the Chinese propaganda

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#202

Post by seanmcdirmid »

terasoans wrote: post #193
erdevs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. I think this was a combination of fear that isolating China vs creating a high degree of economic interdependence could lead to war down the line, and a lack of control over Western companie…

The last time China had a huge trade imbalance with a country resulted in the Opium Wars. I can see why China is so keen on improving their military now.

But back then China wanted nothing from the rest of the world EXCEPT its silver. So in comes Opium, and then the Opium wars.

These days, I think it is a bit better. At least China wants our airplanes/jet engines. And the ruling class is totally vested in overseas real estate. Military wars are just going to be bad for business at that point.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#203

Post by seanmcdirmid »

klodolph wrote: post #36
skynetv2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China ended up with last generate tech we are way past that point. China has leap frogged pretty much everyone else in every aspect. It took China less than a year to build the worlds fastest supercomputer (unclassified) after US placed restrictions on related technology exports to China. China was building components for supercomputers over the past decade, they would show case a network, a small processor, coolin…

You're looking at the PR, look at the actual technology. Anyone can build a big enough supercomputer if you throw enough money at the problem. This high level of spending is getting hard to justify, however, because most of the problems you want to solve can't be solved just by throwing another order of magnitude of computing power at the problem. Building a supercomputer becomes a bit of a boondoggle, a public-relat…

This. China built that supercomputer as a pure PR/face move. It isn't very interesting otherwise, and the west stopped building those kinds of things a long time ago because it moved on to more detached distributed computing.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#204

Post by jcoffland »

qiqing wrote: post #180
jcoffland wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is repressive and has very low standards for human rights. If China becomes more powerful they may decide to conquer the US properly. This may be along way off but this is the fear that's behind not wanting China to surpass the US economically.

What do you think of the U.S.'s record for human rights? To be fair, the U.S. has done a much better job of keeping many of those incidents (Gitmo or elsewhere) secret until fairly recently.

> What do you think of the U.S.'s record for human rights?

The U.S. is far from guilt free.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#205

Post by seanmcdirmid »

School-Cotton wrote: post #107
jdietrich wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSMC have two 16nm fabs and are building a 10nm fab.

TSMC fabs are mostly in Taiwan, not China.

And Taiwan would never let those fabs go to China, they have plenty of laws against that. Only oldish fab tech can be exported to the Mainland.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#206

Post by jomamaxx »

conanbatt wrote: post #96
erdevs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. I think this was a combination of fear that isolating China vs creating a high degree of economic interdependence could lead to war down the line, and a lack of control over Western companie…

Why is it a problem if China develops a higher GDP than the US. Its not a problem for the people. It might be a problem to politicians that want to tell a story, but wishing china to do worse economically is truly backwards. If china comes out with better technology than the us, better products and services, cheaper and all that, the whole world gets better. If you dont believe that, then you must for the sake of con…

"Why is it a problem if China develops a higher GDP than the US"

That isn't the issue.

The issue is protectionist policies and direct interference by the state in all sectors.

They can do that if they want, but we need to slap tariffs on their products and ban some Chinese companies from selling in the West.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#207

Post by jomamaxx »

serge2k wrote: post #60
tiatia wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. Don't worry, the game is not over yet. >For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. Yes. But this could be changed by Trump in one day. (Sorry, I know that this is an extremely liberal board). Chinese don't believe in win-win. They…

> Yes. But this could be changed by Trump in one day. OH really? How will he do that?

"OH really? How will he do that?"

By slapping tit-for-tat policies.

+ Don't allow Chinese companies to invest in the US. + Control capital + Impose tariffs + Get the US gov to make it impossible for Chinese to do business in the US.

Could be done with the stroke of a pen.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#208

Post by jomamaxx »

morgante wrote: post #75
tiatia wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell them: Look, you can play around with your currency in whatever way you want. But if the trade balance is not balanced, we charge a 10% import tax. Per day. Cumulative. I think there are many countries that can produce cheap shoes, clothes and electronics. By now all this stuff can already be manufactured in the US again due to automation and robotics (see Adidas producing shoes in Germany AGAIN). This would be a…

And watch while we are plunged into a recession due to a huge disruption in global supply chains. Sorry, but complex problems don't have simple answers. Trump can't unilaterally force China to stop its protectionism, at least not without inflicting significant hurt on the American economy. How do you think people will react to a 10% increase in prices for almost all goods?

"And watch while we are plunged into a recession due to a huge disruption in global supply chains."

This is false. China is not the sole or important supplier of most things.

Vietname, India etc. are becoming capable of providing labour and supply chain.

A 10% tariff would be fair.

Besides, something needs to be done to balance trade.

Right now China is cheating by claiming they are open, whey they are not.

The West should simply implement tit-for-tat policies.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#209

Post by jomamaxx »

skynetv2 wrote: post #10
sunstone wrote: post #7

The West and China are playing a global chess game and have been for some time. An impoverished China was not in the West's interests and so they agreed to buy all kinds of lowish tech Chinese made goods. In return most jurisdictions enforced a balance of trade with China, with the exception of the US. On their end China insisted on joint ventures and technology transfer to the extent Western companies would comply.…

> China ended up with last generate tech we are way past that point. China has leap frogged pretty much everyone else in every aspect. It took China less than a year to build the worlds fastest supercomputer (unclassified) after US placed restrictions on related technology exports to China. China was building components for supercomputers over the past decade, they would show case a network, a small processor, coolin…

"China has leap frogged pretty much everyone else in every aspect."

How laughable.

Is anyone in the world using a Chinese based OS? Is anyone outside of China really even using a Chinese OS derived from American ones?

Is anyone in the US really using Chinese software?

Can you name any big Chinese products or services that we use in the West besides cheap commodity stuff?

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#210

Post by seanmcdirmid »

notfromhere wrote: post #182
danielrhodes wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited an Airbus factory and on the floor were dozens of pallets filled with parts ready to be loaded on a ship headed for China. The tour guide said that in order for big orders of Airbus planes to be made from China, Airbus had agreed to do final assembly in China. Boeing on the other hand, he smirked, did not agree to this and subsequently didn't get the orders (this has since changed and Boeing is doing the sa…

Airbus is going to regret that decision. The old adage about capitalists selling the noose that hangs them holds true

Meh. Building an airplane isn't that hard anyways, China will get there soon if they aren't already (e.g. with the C919).

It is very difficult to build avionics and jet engines that work, which are just shipped whole sale in final assembly. It will take China much much much longer to replicate that technology, and final assembly rights aren't going to help much at all.

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