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When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

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Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#201

Post by SilasX »

Unklejoe wrote: post #132
krzrak wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize you're not supposed to toss around garbage in the national park?

Here's a different perspective, which I will admit in advance is kind of ridiculous, but it makes me think... Why are humans not considered to be a part of nature? I think it’s because we consider ourselves to be more intelligent than other animals/organisms and therefore assume it to be our responsibility to actively protect nature. However, this is based on our own moral standards, which were created by us, likely…

National parks want to maintain nature in a certain pre-tech-influence state. Don't over-philosophize it.

Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#202

Post by LyndsySimon »

robryk wrote: post #198
LyndsySimon wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vaguely remember reading about a study where a person walked out into a cornfield that was frequented by crows every morning. Every day he'd carry a loaded rifle, but on some mornings the rifle would be internally disabled. Although there was no way to tell visually if the rifle was capable of firing or not, the crows would immediately disperse on days when it was, and would ignore the man on days when it wasn't. T…

Did the study involve a control, in which the man himself wouldn't be aware if the gun could be fired? There are many silly side channels that could have been used by the crows (related e.g. to preparing the gun to be disabled or enabled).

I honestly don't recall, sorry :( I read about it many years ago.

Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#203

Post by jackgavigan »

SiVal wrote: post #124

A VERY timely article for me. About a month ago here in Silicon Valley, I noticed that a crow had been violently torn apart and the pieces scattered all over my backyard lawn. I assume the killer was a raccoon--another improbably intelligent animal. How those fat, little ninjas do what they do is beyond me, but one had apparently caught a crow. A few hours after I noticed the carnage, I grabbed a paper grocery bag an…

> I was already aware of the studies showing that crows recognize individual people and can bear grudges for years. I was afraid that's what I was going to end up with, but after that event, they never bothered me again, and I see crows around my house frequently.

This happened about a month ago, right? I think it's far too early to conclude they don't bear a grudge. Those crows you see around your hours are probably surveilling your habits and movements, so they can plan your demise.

It's no coincidence that the collective noun for a group of crows is "murder".

;-)

Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#204

Post by sqeaky »

aaron695 wrote: post #173
Unklejoe wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[They stayed up there and screeched the whole time I was cleaning up (maybe ten minutes).] I probably would have went inside and left the remains to nature. I commend your bravery. It seems like a squad of crows could do some real damage to a person. Also, I can confirm that raccoons are very intelligent. They're basically like dogs but with more "street smarts". I learned this after trying to get one to leave my att…

- It seems like a squad of crows could do some real damage to a person Sorry but you've lost the plot on this one. Seen way to many movies. Single birds might become territorial when they have young and you might lose a eye. But thats it. I'd watch less TV/'current affairs'/crows are smart stories if I was you. Alcohol, tobacco and mental issues.... now those are scarry killers.

Losing an eye.... How.

Birds weight so little compared to a human that our eyelids mass is significant on that scale.

The reason birds don't attack people is because a human randomly flailing can outright kill crows by the dozen and evolution selects against suicide.

Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#205

Post by imglorp »

eggoa wrote: post #191
Spooky23 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My city has a big flock of them that migrate to another city. Some USDA guys chase them around in a pickup truck when the group gets big and chases them away with strobe lights, lasers, distressed crow sound effects and bottle rockets. When they show up and start settings up, the crows swarm them and poop everywhere. It's pretty crazy.

The USDA sounds like a shitshow in general. http://harpers.org/archive/2016/03/the-rogue-agency/6/

In many ways yes, because in effect they represent producers' interests, which are often in opposition to the public's and the country's interests.

* Puppy mills fall under USDA regulation, because animals are livestock. The agency has been enabling cruelty on mass scale for years, through failure to police simple standards. http://www.caps-web.org/blogs/our-least-favorite-acronym/

* Remember the food pyramid? It's been tugged not by science but by grain and meat interests for years. eg, http://www.ruralvotes.com/thebackforty/?p=4805

* Grazing federal lands (USDA forest service...) is a subsidy for ranchers that damages via erosion and contamination. I'm okay with that but the cost should be borne by the ranchers and reflected in product pricing, not via the taxpayers.

* Meat inspection is a joke. Have you eaten any prions (CJD, mad cow) lately? No one knows because we don't require bulk testing. Hormones, antibiotics in the farm runoff? Bacterial resistance? You're paying for that in the long run too. Mor USDA failure to protect the public.

* Corruption? Sure: http://www.cornucopia.org/2015/05/latest-usda-scandal-organi...

Not my favorite agency.

Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#206

Post by lxxxvi »

carapace wrote: post #126
finid wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What most people don't realize is that most live forms lower on the chain can read our minds. So if the crow's reaction was different based on what you wanted to throw, it's because it knew what you wanted to do before you did it. It was reading your thoughts. Dogs and cats do it too. A few years ago I went to a farm to buy a goat. The younger goats did not know why I was there, but when an older goat saw me and our…

Don't downvote, it's true. Animals can read your thoughts. The mechanism seems to be that they can see your visualizations: I can call my sister's cat in from outside "telepathically" by clearly "seeing" in my mind's eye the cat walking in the back door and "sending" the imagery to him. Sometimes the if the back door is closed and I'm not distracted by computer or something he "calls" me to open the door. Subjectivel…

So you're saying the cat is Branning your Hodor? :p

Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#207

Post by 91bananas »

SilasX wrote: post #201
Unklejoe wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a different perspective, which I will admit in advance is kind of ridiculous, but it makes me think... Why are humans not considered to be a part of nature? I think it’s because we consider ourselves to be more intelligent than other animals/organisms and therefore assume it to be our responsibility to actively protect nature. However, this is based on our own moral standards, which were created by us, likely…

National parks want to maintain nature in a certain pre-tech-influence state. Don't over-philosophize it.

People were philosophizing long before tech-influence. Technology was absent from the thought train too.

Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#208

Post by iaw »

SiVal wrote: post #124

A VERY timely article for me. About a month ago here in Silicon Valley, I noticed that a crow had been violently torn apart and the pieces scattered all over my backyard lawn. I assume the killer was a raccoon--another improbably intelligent animal. How those fat, little ninjas do what they do is beyond me, but one had apparently caught a crow. A few hours after I noticed the carnage, I grabbed a paper grocery bag an…

A decade ago I was driving through a quiet street when a crow limped into the middle directly in line with my tire. I slowed and tried to steer around but the guy seemed intent on limping into his own demise.

Rolling forward at 5 MPH he disappeared under my car only to dart up at the last moment to a telephone line overhead. I looked in my rear-view mirror out of confusion to find that the crows "limp" was in fact a walnut that he was aligning with my tire for me to crack.

Corvids are smarter than I can understand.

Re: When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)

#210

Post by logfromblammo »

mod wrote: post #182
logfromblammo wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Discarding the core is unnatural. The only part of an apple that I discard is the stem. I also ensure that I do not crush all of the seeds with my teeth, thus honoring "the deal" between fruit-bearing plants and animals (even though sewage treatment plants may be involved after the fact). I draw the line at plums, though. Those are pretty much the largest fruit seeds that I will swallow whole. Peaches, yo…

Do you realize that plums and peaches and apples are all likely to be happy just to be carried off and dropped? You don't have to eat freaking pits out of fruit.

That's not true. It depends on the plant species, but some seeds require physical or chemical abrasion of the seed coat before germination can occur. Some fruits have germination-inhibiting plant hormones in the fruit flesh, and cannot sprout until that is either digested or rotted away.

Some seeds require seasonal cycles of cold and hot, but that doesn't involve animals except insofar as they may cause the climate to shift.

That's not really why I swallow the seeds. I do it because it makes less of a mess to clean up after a meal or snack. Someone else might have to walk their apple core to a garbage can, and worry about whether it will rot and stink in there. I just put the stem on my desk and throw it in the landscaping mulch later.

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