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Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

nytimes.com

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Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#201

Post by 55acdda48ab5 »

gdilla wrote: post #200
55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a horrible idea. The whole point of the visa is to service a specific job that was impossible to fill. It makes perfect sense that an H1-b holder should be forced to stay at only one job and not be allowed to compete on the wider job market. The solution to the abuse of the visa is to get rid of all the legal and bureaucratic tests and hoops and auction off the slots instead. The firm with the winning bid gets…

If you want indentured servitude, that's how you get indentured servitude. It is also, not a system of wage suppression that people think it is (although it certainly is abused in that way). The entire pool of H1Bs represent a tiny pimple of the US workforce.

That's an absurd comparison. The visa holder is not bonded and can return home at any time.

The work visa system is obviously broken. Forcing employers to put a dollar value on these supposedly necessary visas goes pretty far to fixing all the problems.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#202

Post by Idontreddit »

douche wrote: post #101
Idontreddit wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait til TTIP and TPP becomes law. Times are good now, but once hilary gets elected and these "free" trade agreements gets signed, the monied masters will immediately raise interest rates and cause a recession which will give cover for businesses to lay off a large swathe of workers ( this time its going to be IT/developers/tech workers who are going to face the brunt of it ) and offshore a lot of these jobs. H1B is…

Assuming the off-shore worker is 10% as effective as the on-shore worker, which, I'll be blunt, I'm not so sure about considering the anecdata I've amassed over the years working with some of these outsourcing body shops, like Tata, HCL, Cognizant, Infosys, etc.

If you think the off-shore worker is 10% as effective, then you are either over-valuing "on-shore" worker or under-valuing the off-shore worker.

>I'm not so sure about considering the anecdata I've amassed over the years working with some of these outsourcing body shops, like Tata, HCL, Cognizant, Infosys, etc.

They may be awful, but anecdotal evidence is that "on-shore" workers are awful as well.

Only time will tell. People used to say the exact same thing about manufacturing. Off-shore workers aren't as good as on-shore workers. Turns out, they were wrong.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#203

Post by gdilla »

55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #201
gdilla wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want indentured servitude, that's how you get indentured servitude. It is also, not a system of wage suppression that people think it is (although it certainly is abused in that way). The entire pool of H1Bs represent a tiny pimple of the US workforce.

That's an absurd comparison. The visa holder is not bonded and can return home at any time. The work visa system is obviously broken. Forcing employers to put a dollar value on these supposedly necessary visas goes pretty far to fixing all the problems.

But it is effectively indentured servitude, because the workers see it as the first step to immigrating. Everyone knows this.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#204

Post by 55acdda48ab5 »

gdilla wrote: post #203
55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an absurd comparison. The visa holder is not bonded and can return home at any time. The work visa system is obviously broken. Forcing employers to put a dollar value on these supposedly necessary visas goes pretty far to fixing all the problems.

But it is effectively indentured servitude, because the workers see it as the first step to immigrating. Everyone knows this.

The workers are wrong, then. That is not the purpose of the H1B. Anyone who thinks it should lead to a green card should be barred from getting the visa.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#205

Post by gdilla »

55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #204
gdilla wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is effectively indentured servitude, because the workers see it as the first step to immigrating. Everyone knows this.

The workers are wrong, then. That is not the purpose of the H1B. Anyone who thinks it should lead to a green card should be barred from getting the visa.

said by someone who doesn't understand US immigration. H1B is a non immigrant visa, sure, but it can open the door to the immigration process via company sponsorship. I know because I did it, and many others do too. Applying for a greencard from your native country is counterproductive. Basically a 10 year wait for some. Why bother.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#206

Post by 55acdda48ab5 »

gdilla wrote: post #205
55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The workers are wrong, then. That is not the purpose of the H1B. Anyone who thinks it should lead to a green card should be barred from getting the visa.

said by someone who doesn't understand US immigration. H1B is a non immigrant visa, sure, but it can open the door to the immigration process via company sponsorship. I know because I did it, and many others do too. Applying for a greencard from your native country is counterproductive. Basically a 10 year wait for some. Why bother.

> it can open the door to the immigration process via company sponsorship

That's wrong and it's wrong that it worked for you. You should leave.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#207

Post by slededit »

55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #204
gdilla wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is effectively indentured servitude, because the workers see it as the first step to immigrating. Everyone knows this.

The workers are wrong, then. That is not the purpose of the H1B. Anyone who thinks it should lead to a green card should be barred from getting the visa.

The H1-B is a dual intent status. There are categories that are strictly non-immigrant intent, TN work permits fit this category. Border guards can and do test that you have non-immigrant intent during normal border crossings while under this status ("Where is your home?" "what will you do once your TN is over?").

If it really was intended that H1-Bs not have immigrant intent then there was a legal framework already in place to ensure that. Most likely it is you that is incorrect about the purpose of these H1-Bs.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#208

Post by dragonwriter »

slededit wrote: post #207
55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The workers are wrong, then. That is not the purpose of the H1B. Anyone who thinks it should lead to a green card should be barred from getting the visa.

The H1-B is a dual intent status. There are categories that are strictly non-immigrant intent, TN work permits fit this category. Border guards can and do test that you have non-immigrant intent during normal border crossings while under this status ("Where is your home?" "what will you do once your TN is over?"). If it really was intended that H1-Bs not have immigrant intent then there was a legal framework already…

The "dual-purpose" nature of the H-1B basically means that (1) you are not prohibited to enter on an H-1B with the intent to stay permanently, and, perhaps more significantly (2) you aren't required to leave the US for a period of time after entering on an H-1B before getting an immigrant visa which will let you stay permanently.

But it is still a non-immigrant visa that does not lead to permanent residency or citizenship, but requires you to qualify for, apply for, and secure an immigrant visa if and when you want to become an immigrant rather than a non-immigrant worker.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#209

Post by Bartweiss »

jayd16 wrote: post #161
Spooky23 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective is the one missing from this debate. I don't have a problem with immigration -- my grandparents were all immigrants. I have a problem with this three-tier system of greencards, guest visas and systematic import of undocumented workers. These leech companies are farming exploited quasi-immigrant labor while screwing up the labor market for everyone else. You should be able to come to this country like…

Speaking totally from a selfish standpoint, these policies against immigrants don't make sense for the American worker either. H1Bs lower the wage of American tech workers because it fills the workforce with those who can't ask for more. Cracking down on illegal immigrants just forces them underground away from the ability to demand workers rights. This puts the American worker, who demands minimum wage, safe work pl…

I don't think I've ever heard this point made about H1B in particular.

Giving employers a way to shackle workers to a specific job and salary is bad from virtually every political perspective. It's anti-competitive (what kind of free market association is that?), it's anti-immigrant (obviously), and it's anti-labor because it artificially drops market prices.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#210

Post by gdilla »

55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #206
gdilla wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

said by someone who doesn't understand US immigration. H1B is a non immigrant visa, sure, but it can open the door to the immigration process via company sponsorship. I know because I did it, and many others do too. Applying for a greencard from your native country is counterproductive. Basically a 10 year wait for some. Why bother.

> it can open the door to the immigration process via company sponsorship That's wrong and it's wrong that it worked for you. You should leave.

yeah! The ones who did it legally should leave. You're very solution oriented.
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