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Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

nautil.us

201–210 of 210 posts

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#201

A big part of this that's unpopular to discuss in current culture is people actively avoiding going to a church. Whether you actually donate and believe everything that is said isn't really a factor in whether or not you can show up every week, meet other people in your community, participate in events, be there for each other at during the hard times in life, have fun activities for your kids where you can meet othe…

The problem with church is that it demands submission in exchange for community. Not only believe this way, but dress this way, eat this way, vote this way, and if you're in any way different you're as cut off as you would be if you stayed home, and if you're having hard times you must have done something to deserve it. I'm from Ohio so it may be different up here, but that's my experience.

The degree to which that is true varies not just regionally but by individual church (not just denomination/tradition/sect, but individual parish/congregation.)

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#202
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so difficult to find a church that (a) values community, and (b) hasn't made some kind of big, public decision against LGBTQ people. And that doesn't preach guilt and condemnation in a thousand overt or subtle ways…

> It's so difficult to find a church that (a) values community, and (b) hasn't made some kind of big, public decision against LGBTQ people. What's a 'big, public decision'? The Bible is very clear that there is such a thing as sexual immorality and that same-sex relationships qualify. I've heard arguments that a long series of translation errors means that certain kinds of same-sex relationships are fine, but even so…

Yeah. I haven't squared it all myself, and I'm not sure I expect to. I do know that many of the oft-quoted passages are in the Old Testament, and thus explicitly superseded by the New. There are however a few troublesome passages in Paul's writings for sure…

Then again, as Scot McNight makes undeniably clear in the opening chapters of The Blue Parakeet, everybody picks and chooses: it's just a matter of degree.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#203
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a young person's perspective who has seen older coworkers get divorced and observing remarkable fallout from divorce, why get married then? Please don't take the question as an insult, its a query from a young developer who scarcely has relationships longer than a year.

Mostly to raise kids in a stable manner. And the finances are much more stable. You need someone you can have fun with; little league games are not romantic, but are fun. Ditto doing the laundry or yardwork or cooking dinner or whatever. We have similar outlooks on hobby / life / work balance. We're also both descended from 40+ yrs of marriage couples, so the risk of divorce seems much lower.

After moving here, I was quite surprised to see a significant number of my buddies had divorced parents and were totally against marriage.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#204
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a young person's perspective who has seen older coworkers get divorced and observing remarkable fallout from divorce, why get married then? Please don't take the question as an insult, its a query from a young developer who scarcely has relationships longer than a year.

Mostly to raise kids in a stable manner. And the finances are much more stable. You need someone you can have fun with; little league games are not romantic, but are fun. Ditto doing the laundry or yardwork or cooking dinner or whatever. We have similar outlooks on hobby / life / work balance. We're also both descended from 40+ yrs of marriage couples, so the risk of divorce seems much lower.

You've answered the question "why live in a stable, long term relationship" which is a subtly different question from "why get married".

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#205
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because for some reason many commentators find it perfectly reasonable to use absolute GDP growth as a metric for comparing Japan to America, ignoring the fact that America's population is growing at around 3% while Japan's population growth is around 0% or negative (which means all things being equal one'd expect America's GDP growth to be around 3% higher). In terms of GDP growth per capita, which is the metric tha…

Japanese government debt to GDP ratio is 229%. Japanese government has kept lights on with 15 years of constant deficit. Fortunately most of this debt is internal and in local currency (no fear of hyperinflation). But Japanese are getting old. In a few years Japanese insurance companies and Japanese savers turn from net buyers of government debt and stocks into net sellers. It's interesting to see what happens then.

US has a good stream of immigrants coming in. Last I heard immigrating to Japan is a lot tougher. I wonder why the Japanese govt isn't opening the gates up to keep the population growth of young people at a steady level

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#206
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some co-workers who attend a kind of spiritual-social group. It's designed as a kind of third place for those who choose to avoid the Christian tradition. I haven't been, so maybe I'm wrong about there being any kind of spiritual focus to the group, but I might describe my coworkers as an ex-Christian (who's fairly bitter about it) and...well, the other guy, I'm not sure. Maybe "theist"? My impression was that…

Do they have a name or some sort of label to easily identify the group so I could do a search for something similar in my area?

And...they've both left the company. We've been having a lot of layoffs recently, along with significant turnover.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Japan prostitution is effectively legal. It's not legal to have penis in vagina sex but everything else is legal and you can bet that all of the places that claim they provide everything but that also provide that service as well. There's tons of "red light" districts as well as call up places. Even if you don't want sex Japan has a culture of hostess clubs and "snack" clubs. A hostess club is a club you pay to ha…

I agree, but in the US its still illegal. Having such services will only help, rather than cause further isolation.

Do you have some studies that show this to be true or is it just your opinion?

I don't know which way it would go. Since Japan has these and Japan seems to have some of the biggest problems with isolation how do we know these services don't contribute to the isolation?

Note I'm not saying they do. I don't know but it's easy to imagine things like:

* Why make up with my significant other if I can just get some paid for companionship leading to less strong relationships

* Why even try to have a real relationship where I my SO might get angry when I can pay to have a fake one where they'll never get angry and rarely disapprove of me

* Maybe given I know these paid relationships aren't real, that the provider I'm paying really doesn't care about me but is just doing a job makes me more depressed about my life.

Again, I'm not saying any of these are true or not, only pointing out that AFAIK there's no studies that show if paid companionship is a net positive or net negative for social isolation.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#208
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Church attendance is available to everyone. For thousands of years, the answer to your dilemma has been obvious. If you are excluded from an existing church, just make a new one. When black people could not attend white churches, do you think they just gave up and decided to be secular?

Parent is talking about a small sub-minority of people. Not large enough to form their own church or provide a diverse society to network in.

If there are enough gays to be gay, there are enough to form a church.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#209
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they have a name or some sort of label to easily identify the group so I could do a search for something similar in my area?

And...they've both left the company. We've been having a lot of layoffs recently, along with significant turnover.

Hey thanks for the follow up though man! I appreciate it.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#210
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Ex-Christian, I miss the "third place" but I do not miss the church. I don't know where to get that same idea for my kids but I also don't want them growing up with a belief in the doctrine I grew up with. I also have strong feelings about what religions my child is exposed to. I don't mind him being exposed to multiple religions, but there are certain religions I would consider secondary and don't want to be h…

You could see if there is a local Unitarian Church. The Unitarians are bound by a shared commitment to loving inclusiveness, not religious dogma, and many Unitarians are agnostic or even atheist.

I've heard this multiple times this weekend. I'm going to check it out. Thank you.
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