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“We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

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201–210 of 259 posts

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean safe ad networks, and self-hosted ad platforms, that are served via first-party.

What would that look like for, say, a small personal blog that includes a few ads to cover the hosting costs?

Well, it wouldn't be the target for your small personal blog... once you approach it at a small business level, it means running server-side code do deliver ads injected into your content that reports what data can be reported upstream.

It does mean more limited analytical data, but it would also mean better privacy constraints... it means moving the delivery to first-party servers, that can use other SaaS behind that.

As to advertizing, it means delivering an image url, and a target url... no more leaps and bounds of JS, or for that matter layers of iframes..

TBH though, if browser vendors simply disabled JS, and iframes more than 3 layers in, and limit JS files to 3 max (100kb size limit) within an iframe, the advertizers would probably successfully self-correct..

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#202
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what ways do ad blockers block internally served ads? I'm perfectly happy with static ads served from the same site as the content. If seems adblockers should have an option to block only the "bad" ads, I.e anything referencing one of a list of known ad nets.

Go to the reddit homepage. Look at the very top link (that's highlighed with an outline). That's an ad, but it's hosted by reddit and contains no scripts or iframes, in fact doesn't even contain offsite images. Its div has the CSS class promotedlink. If you look in the default list used by Adblock Plus https://easylist-downloads.adblockplus.org/easylist.txt you will see that it blocks this because it contains the lin…

Yea it was after Adblock Plus was sold to an unknown 3rd party who refused to reveal themselves, obviously after the anger everyone switched over to uBlock Origin including me.

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. At any one time, a publisher can be serving ads from a few exchanges, a few different private sellers, and custom built ads for brands. And these all are served in different combinations across several different ad units on multiple pages. And some of those ad sellers may be backfilling with other ad networks, or maybe the publisher is backfilling certain ads from the ad exchanges at certain CPM…

> At any one time, a publisher can be serving ads from a few exchanges, a few different private sellers, and custom built ads for brands. And these all are served in different combinations across several different ad units on multiple pages. And some of those ad sellers may be backfilling with other ad networks, or maybe the publisher is backfilling certain ads from the ad exchanges at certain CPM prices. So, don't d…

So stop going to those sites. Really; you voluntarily visit those sites. To quote you, "It is absolutely that simple."

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would that look like for, say, a small personal blog that includes a few ads to cover the hosting costs?

Well, it wouldn't be the target for your small personal blog... once you approach it at a small business level, it means running server-side code do deliver ads injected into your content that reports what data can be reported upstream. It does mean more limited analytical data, but it would also mean better privacy constraints... it means moving the delivery to first-party servers, that can use other SaaS behind tha…

What it also means is more publishers cut journalism/content, transition to buzzfeed style "news", or go out of business. Or really some admixture thereof.

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At any one time, a publisher can be serving ads from a few exchanges, a few different private sellers, and custom built ads for brands. And these all are served in different combinations across several different ad units on multiple pages. And some of those ad sellers may be backfilling with other ad networks, or maybe the publisher is backfilling certain ads from the ad exchanges at certain CPM prices. So, don't d…

You don't get a free pass on ethics just because ethics are inconvenient for your business model. I think calling this an ethical issue is quite a stretch. In many cases, we're talking about visitors who are not only enjoying the content from someone else's site completely for free, but also employing tools that actively modify the intended presentation of that content to the detriment of the host site's operators. A…

Strongly disagree since I feel there is misinformation and a very strange perception as to where the onus of protection should come from.

The reason that the bad advertisement issue is such a big problem is that very often the anti-virus programs simply don't work on the malware being served. The exploits used either aren't in the definitions database or the AV has a blindspot.

It's also very difficult to be running without an anti-virus on a modern computer. Windows Defender doesn't always rank the strongest, but it's certainly competitive with other AV solutions, and Windows will nag-nag-nag if you don't have what it considers to be an active AV installed. It's not the early 2000's anymore when you had to find a good AV - for the most part, if you buy a modern computer, there are AV protections in place already.

As is such, these aren't users thumbing their nose at safety and running around unprotected, these are people who have a reasonable expectation to not be served malware by reading an article at Forbes.

Simply put, regardless of how you're doing it, you should not be serving malware to people. If your site is the vector, you have a responsibility to deal with it, and ignoring this, as many sites have done, is an ethical breach. Malware can and does do harm, sometimes in the form of lost data and lost money. Ensuring you're not serving up malware isn't just in the lines of "good citizen", it's a duty to not harm - the people affected by the malware have no recourse in virtually every situation. If it's ransomware, they either have to hope that it's poorly made and gets broken, if their machine is otherwise unrecoverable, that data is lost.

Forbes and the other sites that are proposed to be blocked may be getting fingered right now, but the complaint is a larger complaint about advertising; as participants who are not working to clean it up, I think users have every right to be upset and to call it unethical - the response that they're receiving is, well, no response. The websites don't care.

All that being said, I'm actually fine with them putting up an ad-wall, as it kind of forces them to put their money where their mouth is. Part of the change that will need to happen is to show the sites that consumers don't want to put up with dangerous ads and to prompt action, and ad-walls pretty much force a boycott if users want to continue using adblockers. This will give them the metrics to see the effect that bad advertising has, and hopefully prompt change.

But, I still think that you have an obligation to ensure your website is not a hazard, regardless of how it became one. "Everyone else is doing it" isn't a defense, especially when it causes real and immediate damage to potentially thousands of people.

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#206
post #6

As noted other comments, this would only apply to the /r/technology subreddit. The general feedback is in favor of blocking these types of sites. I'm pretty amazed at the current state of ads. With multiple ad exchanges, private sellers, and static brand deals, the entire serving process is a mess and users are paying for it. I don't think publishing websites are being malicious; they're incentived to make money and…

The other side of the story is that most users don't want to pay for anything on the internet. Not making this up - I've had people tell me they pay for the internet connection, so they don't see a reason to pay for any services on top of it :( So the same person who wouldn't think twice about dropping $5 on a cup of starbucks coffee every day will not pay $5 per month for email (without ads).

Not defending the shitty ad scene online. Just want to point out that most people don't want to pay for anything online, they are at least partially responsible for this mess.

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you conflating individually-trusted CDNs with the servers of some random guy? And allowing only images, like most embeds do, is a form of sanitation. I'll repeat myself. "I think very few websites allow one person to embed arbitrary scripts that will be shown to another person." This is not happening as a result of you using an image host. No scripts are involved there. This is not happening as a result of th…

It's fine to load jQuery from a specific server that you trust. It's also fine to load ads from the ad network's server, as long as they are policing uploads properly. The problem is they usually don't. You keep saying they usually don't, but billions of harmless ads are served every day while only a tiny fraction of the served ads are malicious. I just don't see how it's reasonable to assume depending on a third par…

They don't have a system that makes malicious uploads impossible (outside of hacking, of course). They could implement such a system, without much trouble. They choose not to.

Using a third party ad network is not inherently risky. But most specific third party ad networks are risky, because of bad practices.

That most ads are harmless is enforced through social norms and after-the-fact takedowns. They could do better, but don't. Negligence.

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At any one time, a publisher can be serving ads from a few exchanges, a few different private sellers, and custom built ads for brands. And these all are served in different combinations across several different ad units on multiple pages. And some of those ad sellers may be backfilling with other ad networks, or maybe the publisher is backfilling certain ads from the ad exchanges at certain CPM prices. So, don't d…

You don't get a free pass on ethics just because ethics are inconvenient for your business model. I think calling this an ethical issue is quite a stretch. In many cases, we're talking about visitors who are not only enjoying the content from someone else's site completely for free, but also employing tools that actively modify the intended presentation of that content to the detriment of the host site's operators. A…

Yes, we're in a thread dedicated to complaining about site owners who offer a choice: view ads or pay us money, and we're complaining about the ads they show. Where the giant screaming subtext is wah wah wah, I want this for free to me and with no ads.

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#209
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not great. About 40% of the recommendations are things I'd never watch, 40% are things I've already watched. YT has trouble figuring me out because I watch a lot of gamers that also appeal to a younger audience (eg Yogscast). I get recommended a lot of terrible stuff targeted at that audience that I have no interest in (eg PewDiePie and Markiplier). I have no idea why they recommend stuff I've already watched…

I too can not figure out why YT wants me to watch things again. Or also common, the last 10 seconds of a video is just links to the user's other videos, so I move on. Then YT wants me to "finish watching" it. No, I don't want to finish watching the last 5 seconds of an outro.

> Then YT wants me to "finish watching" it. No, I don't want to finish watching the last 5 seconds of an outro.

I have this issue with Netflix. I have tons of movies on "continue watching" that the only thing left to watch is the credits.

Re: “We're considering banning domains that require users to disable ad blockers”

#210
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get a free pass on ethics just because ethics are inconvenient for your business model. I think calling this an ethical issue is quite a stretch. In many cases, we're talking about visitors who are not only enjoying the content from someone else's site completely for free, but also employing tools that actively modify the intended presentation of that content to the detriment of the host site's operators. A…

Strongly disagree since I feel there is misinformation and a very strange perception as to where the onus of protection should come from. The reason that the bad advertisement issue is such a big problem is that very often the anti-virus programs simply don't work on the malware being served. The exploits used either aren't in the definitions database or the AV has a blindspot. It's also very difficult to be running…

I'm still waiting to see an argument for why a content provider who is making something available to others for free and without obligation has any obligation in return, either legally or ethically, beyond the same basic decency that we all owe to each other. I think a site that is neither actively malicious nor grossly negligent has satisfied that basic decency requirement.

Ultimately, it's just not realistic to expect every little store and niche blogger to either monitor every third party service they depend on full-time just to protect the users who are giving them little if anything in return or to discontinue using any third party services that are technically capable of distributing malware. The former is demonstrably impossible anyway, and if you take the latter to its logical conclusion you undermine substantial parts of what has made the modern web so successful, far beyond using ads as a revenue stream.

Put another way, malware writers themselves may be the scum of the earth, but I don't see why someone writing a blog about how to bake cakes and using a well-known and generally reputable ad network to fund the hosting costs is any more ethically responsible for the consequences of a malware incident than, say, a browser developer whose also freely offered product had a vulnerability that could be exploited in the first place. I don't see anyone calling for any browser with a track record of serious security vulnerabilities (which is all of them, of course) to be banned to protect users from malware, though.

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