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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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201–210 of 313 posts

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#201

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

> The question I always come to is how big can you get without a label? and will there ever be a day when artists have full creative control of their craft? This would mean that the artist would need to value and understand business practices, distribution methods, contracting, etc.

If you're interested in this question, someone to watch closely is Chance the Rapper.

He started his music career just over four years ago when he received a 10 day suspension during his senior of highschool for allegedly having marijuana on campus. During those 10 days, he recorded the entirety of his first mixtape, 10-Day, and released it to datpiff.com and had relatively large success. The album was angry at times-- mostly complaining about the suspension, but also very fun and nostalgic. It was a third of Breakfast Club, half Dazed and Confused, and a sixth Ceelo-Green Fuck You. The production was sometimes great and sometimes really lacking, but on the whole it was impressive for an 18 year old with nothing but an old Macbook and 10 days of free time.

If I recall correctly, it received something like 10k downloads before his next album, Acid Rap, and that is where he really blew up. It was choir-inspired psychedelic rap with flawless production. It had dark moments talking about Chicago violence and losing friends. It retained the CeeLo-theme of "Screw you, I can do this myself." But this is where he got millions of downloads and became a household name to a sizable portion of 14-28 y/os-- and in only just a bit more than a year since his suspension.

At this point he started getting label offers like crazy, and he didn't like it. He saw the wild success he had in all of one year and didn't want to sign a label, and to today he still hasn't. He talks a lot about making a union for up-and-coming music artists.

One song he has that talks solely about this can be found here: 'https://soundcloud.com/chancetherapper/chance-the-rapper-the...

    Young black boy, how he got the labels scared?
    A&R's like, "Chano, you ain't playin' fair!
    You gon' set a bad example for the average bear
    You a Yogi, you should idle while in child's position"
    I be like, naw, these my sons, this prenatal care
    I'mma show em how to make it here and make it fair
    Take it there, they could kill me and I ain't gon' care
    You is just an ankle weight, lighter than some angel cake
    Sweeter than some maple syrup, easier than Ableton
    Make a plate and make a player
    Make em play it
    Just don't count your sheep before they hatch
    You chickens 'fore your eggs
    Eat your dinner 'fore you say your prayer

    [...]

    Young tactician, just got my taxes finished
    Beat the tortoise by a hair in an '04 Ford Taurus
    On a spare with a wax finish
    There's a lot of metaphors, you just lack vision
    You just bad business
    UH!
    All your shit been lower case
    Lower class, lower key
    I'm the only minor minority in priority
    Sippin' gin and tonic while I plot upon authority
    Author of my horoscope, feeling like the oracle
    Ain't no rules, nigga
    IGH!
Clearly continuing his "Fuck you!" mentality, now aimed at record companies instead of his highschool principal.

He's stated that one of his biggest idols as an aspiring Chicago rapper was Kanye West, and as someone who was watching him prior to Acid Rap, it was really fun to see that on West's most recent album he was featured in multiple songs-- still without a label. His dream was realized in a matter of a few years, and I think that clearly shows that mobility is at least possible in this day and age without a label

The question is if these platforms (soundcloud, datpiff, genius to an extent) can provide enough value to these artists that a symbiotic relationship is sustainable after they become popular. One of Chance's close friends, Vic Mensa, also came to popularity through soundcloud and datpiff, but he signed with a label soon after. Things worked out for him, too-- he has worked with West and appeared on SNL. Chance is more political and principled and is definitely an outlier-- so these platforms can't rely on artists having that mindset.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#202
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?

Watch the movie "The Wrecking Crew". Essentially, the studio fixes the nascent tune penned by the artist, and provides studio musicians to play on the recordings. The band rarely plays, or even sings, on the album. The reason is simple, they don't play that well, or sing that well, and the studio musicians do. This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the bac…

Most of all they provide marketing for the fairly bland consumer friendly sort of music that makes a lot of money.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#203
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, what's needed is an Image Comics but for music, where the creators maintain control of their works and are paid the lion's share of the profits. Surely there must be a label like this out there.

Why would a label want to do that? How would the label survive? If the creator's are paid the lion's share of the profits, would they also keep the lion's share of the losses?

Well, Image exists and seems to do okay, and the creators benefit to the extent that they are ditching the Big Two (Marvel and DC) in favour of creator-owned. I'm not sure what the exact revenue split is. Image's books don't get huge marketing pushes or movies either.

Re. losses: yes, that's how it works. You do a bunch of work up-front and if it flops, you don't make anything.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work in a record shop and found out first hand how much promotion a band needs just to sell a few CD's. I can't tell you how many insanely good bands died because either the label didn't promote them, or they just ran out of cash and quit. The only problem I see nowadays is there's virtually no vetting process. It used to be the good bands would eventually rise to the top and the shitty garage bands would b…

> There's just way too much noise to signal ratio for me to sit and search for hours on end to find one decent band I find Podcasts on Music AWESOME for discovery: http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510019/all-songs-considered

Or University radio stations, they're still around and have charts http://www.earshot-online.com/charts/citr.cfm

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#205
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it's still primarily http://last.fm/ 's similar artist feature.

The problem with last.fm (and almost all similar music services) is that a lot of the similarity they encapsulate is chronological and social similarity, rather than musical similarity. For example, a search for Nirvana pulls up Hole (social similarity, the Courtney Love connection) and Pearl Jam (social & chronological similarity) quite high on the list, even though neither really sounds that much like Nirvana. On t…

How do you measure similarity to capture what you want?

The obvious approach is that you look for "people who like this, like that". This is easy to measure and understand. And when you're faced with a person who liked this, it is usually the right answer.

The problem is that you don't know WHY people who like this, like that. Often it is simply, "Heard both at an impressionable age." What you want it to be is, "On the musical criteria that I can recognize, this music is similar." But that's a complex piece of logic, and it is not clear how to do so.

Which makes the tools really good for rediscovering all of the stuff from your childhood, and really bad for discovering new music that is similar to stuff you like.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#206
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?

Watch the movie "The Wrecking Crew". Essentially, the studio fixes the nascent tune penned by the artist, and provides studio musicians to play on the recordings. The band rarely plays, or even sings, on the album. The reason is simple, they don't play that well, or sing that well, and the studio musicians do. This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the bac…

Artists can do and have done all of the above, especially on the indie scene.

The "just a performer" model is only true for that small percentage of singers who are just performers. That model includes some of the bigger household names. Some of them are essentially fashion models who sing and dance, not musicians. Others are singers who also produce, and have a feel for what sounds good even if they can't play all the parts. (This is harder than it sounds.)

There's literally an entire industry of independent artists who record and produce at home, do their own tour management and logistics, maybe mix in a studio for some final polish, handle distribution, and so on.

And an entire related industry of bloggers, DJs, and other online sites that review and curate the most interesting new music.

The labels keep on keeping on, but their business model is very fragile now. They wait for a producer to manufacture a band, or for a band/artist to bubble up from the indie (artist - not musical style) scene.

When they reach a critical mass they try to buy them. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

The bizarre thing about A&R budgets over the last few years is that they're as huge as they've ever been, but concentrated on a relatively small number of artists. Because there's a lot of money involved the labels are ridiculously risk averse. If a signing doesn't turn into a cash cow after the first album they're dropped.

This has always happened, but the cycle is so short now that only acts that have instant mass appeal or a guaranteed existing fan base are successful on labels. Everyone else is indie.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#207
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…

You wouldnt happen to be the Rip Rowan of ProRec.com would you? miss that site...

aw shucks

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…

As a discovery tool Pandora's value is debatable. Curation works better than recommenders. To my great surprise, I continue to discover new acts, music thru the radio. Just like when I was kid. KBCS.fm and KEXP.org have great speciality shows. They also do a good job of posting their play lists, streaming archives, linking to artists, promoting upcoming shows, etc. I've rarely discovered new stuff from a recommender…

Well it turns out that you aren't alone.

Radio is still the most important music discovery media: https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/norm....

Notably, that chart puts Pandora discovery at a meaningful 10%.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Also Skrillex - his label had no interest in his bleep-blonk-screech-BASS DROP tunes and he set it free online and got that avenue going - now he's got his own label and millions in the bank." Financially I think artists like Skrillex (EDM producers in general) are incredibly lucky. Production costs are practically zero. You buy a DAW and some monitors and you can do everything at home on your laptop. You don't n…

Good point for sure. It's not just EDM - a basic Pop song can be produced at practically zero cost once an independent musician and producer has sunk the costs of DAW and equipment into the operation. A lot of music, in general, is stunningly simple. Hip-hop can be done with one MPC and a mic (okay maybe AutoTune as well haha). Country only really needs an acoustic guitar, vocals, and a quality mic. Yes, there's a re…

Teenagers growing up don't only have a plethora more of opportunities & tools -- they also have a plethora of distracting activities that can take away from the careful attention needed to make great music.

Sometimes I believe the guys in the 60s & 70s ironically had it easier because they just sat around, maybe smoking some dope, and played music. There wasn't a smartphone at their hip vibrating every few minutes, so they could really just pour their heart into the music and hey, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Beatles, Dylan, etc... you name a great, probably came out of that time period. While I like a lot of stuff today, I do question if it'll hold up to the test of time and personally feel very little of it will when compared to how much did & will continue from the 60s/70s.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#210
post #4

Miles Davis on Steve Miller: “Steve Miller didn’t have his shit going for him, so I’m pissed because I got to open for this non-playing motherfucker just because he had one or two sorry-ass records out. So I would come late and he would have to go on first and then when we got there, we smoked the motherfucking place, and everybody dug it.” http://www.openculture.com/2015/05/miles-davis-opens-for-nei...

I hate this ingratitude. You know Miller and Young loved Davis. Absolutely loved him, but they were in the business of making radio friendly rock music by that time and obviously very different than the jazz scene Davis lived in. Their mainstream popularity gave Davis a great venue to open up to non-jazz listeners and promote someone they admired. Davis, being a jerk himself (oh the irony of calling Miller a jerk), t…

you are absolutely right on one level, but to balance it out... really nobody involved really wanted to be at that concert as it was put together... it was purely a put together promotional gig by the record label...

in other words, it wasnt really 'ingratitude' it was literally, i am not grateful because i dont want this.

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